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Musician, manager, and cultural entrepreneur Drew McManus has been involved with every aspect of non profit performing arts and charitable organizations. He has become one of the most unique individuals in this industry who is trusted and respected by administrators, academics, board members, music directors, musicians and union officials alike.

In addition to being a recognized expert in the orchestra industry, Mr. McManus is the proprietor and author of the highly successful daily feature Adaptistration; the only dedicated column solely about the orchestra business. Not only does this column discuss relevant issues related to the industry, it also serves as a force for positive change. More...

Transcript Recorded: 03-06-2006 - 06:59:33 PM

MyAuditions: Greetings Members. Welcome to MyAuditions celebrity chat. Our featured artist this evening is with Drew McManus; musician, manager, and cultural entrepreneur.
MyAuditions: McManus has been involved with every aspect of non profit performing arts and charitable organizations. He has become one of the most unique individuals in this industry who is trusted and respected by administrators, academics, board members, music directors, musicians and union officials alike.
MyAuditions: This is a moderated chat and all comments are pre-screened and will be pre-approved by Mr. McManus prior to public display on this forum.
MyAuditions: Welcome Drew!
Drew McManus: Thank you. I’m honored to be here at MyAuditions tonight.
MyAuditions: It's a real pleasure to have you here.
Drew McManus: I'm looking forward to it.
MyAuditions: It's show time so let's get right to it. Shall we?
MyAuditions: We are most curious as to what exactly is a cultural entrepreneur?
Drew McManus: That would be any musician who takes it upon themselves to create their own opportunities outside of mainstream ensembles.
MyAuditions: The forum is now open to questions from our audience.
<Sigurd01>: Please comment on the musicians union AFM. What kind of improvements might you suggest?
Drew McManus: The AFM is like any other union, it can always find ways to better serve its members. Finding ways to better prepare orchestra committee members and train local officers would be a good place to start if it were up to me.
<Musician>: Hi Drew, I am a big fan of Adaptistration. What was your motivation for starting it?
Drew McManus: Thank you for the kind words. Adaptistration started from a desire to create a forum outside of the existing medium offered by the ASOL to discuss issues and ideas related to orchestra management.
<Mary832>: Why not ASOL?
Drew McManus: There was, and is, nothing in place at the ASOL which addresses issues on a daily basis using a format like I use at Adaptistration.
<Musician>: Are you planning on attending and speaking at the ASOL conference at the end of May in L.A?
Drew McManus: That's still in the works but if I do go out, it will likely be in conjunction with some work I'm doing at the American Music Center's NewMusicBox and/or Polyphonic.org.
<Sigurd01>: Any progress at Interlochen?
Drew McManus: Could you be a little more specific?
<Sigurd01>: You had several outstanding articles describing some
"challenging" topics - pun intended.
Drew McManus: Ah, yes, more Interlochen articles are in the hopper. There’s one coming soon about the changes related to the All-State program and their attendance figures.
<Arvid>: I am curious how you got your start as an arts consultant. What background do you have as an expert to the performing arts? Thank you.
Drew McManus: I have an extended bio available at Adaptistration which might answer some of those questions for you but the consulting started through my connections with others involved in the business among managers and musicians.
Patriciali: Hi Drew, I really admire all your work. I'm a musician who would like to enter the field of arts management. In your opinion, what are the biggest challenges that arts managers face today? And what recommendations would you give young arts managers to better prepare themselves for those challenges?
Drew McManus: That's a good question and one which doesn’t have a tidy one sentence answer. However, the biggest challenge is to avoid administrative myopia. The best advice I can give you is go out and start your own group, learn every facet of the business from the ground up. Learn about labor law, nonprofit law, etc.
<Musician>: Is the advice you gave Patricia something the ASOL covers in the arts management courses?
Drew McManus: I can't speak about the ASOL programs as I have never attended any. Other formal training programs out there besides those offered by the League can be found at the Kennedy Center. They used to call it the Vilar Institute but for various reasons they have since changed the name although the new name of the program escapes me at the moment.
Rushyama: I’m a current music major who's also interested in arts administration/management. Do you have some suggestions for good training programs?
Drew McManus: Personally, I'm not a huge fan of academic arts management programs for a variety of reasons. However, I have to also point out that the odds support getting an AA degree as one of the best methods to guarantee you'll get a good job.
<Sigurd01>: Any idea of what might happen orchestrally speaking in Miami and South Florida?
Drew McManus: I sincerely hope South Florida gets a full time orchestra up and running ASAP.
<Sigurd01>: I was the principal cellist of the Florida Philharmonic
Drew McManus: I wish the Phil was still up and running, Miami needs a full orchestra and there's no reason they shouldn't have one.
<Arvid>: Do you think Cleveland in Miami will be a good thing or detract from starting up another orchestra there?
Drew McManus: It could easily go both ways: the presence of professional groups like Cleveland could bring more attention to the fact that there's no group now and build support for starting one or their presence could prevent funds from being directed to starting up a new group. I wish I could say which would happen but I hope it's the former over the latter.
Drew McManus: If you mean Florida, what happened is the Florida Philharmonic was one of several ensembles to go out of business in the past three years.
<Sigurd01 >: Any suggestions on how South Florida can juggle a new orchestra with the New World Symphony? i.e. how to get the public to differentiate between a training orchestra and pros.
Drew McManus: That will take a concerted effort on behalf of the local union. They need to launch a marketing effort to help educate the public on the difference between the two ensembles, but I see your concern and think it's valid.
Patriciali: How could it have been avoided to what happened to Florida Phil and other ensembles that went out of business?
Drew McManus: A very good question but one which is too complicated for this format I'm sorry to say. I do maintain a component at Adaptistration entitled "Lost But Not Forgotten" which keeps tabs on many of the ensembles which have gone out of business in recent years and you’ll find additional information there although tt needs to be updated.
<Sigurd01 >: More education in schools.
Drew McManus: Always a good solution but I like to point out that increased school exposure is a long term solution and one which won't offer immediate benefits to organizations which need solutions here and now.
<Mary832>: I live in Fort Lauderdale and New World Symphony is quite popular here. It's so eclectic in the mix of people. It is kind of like baseball. Hit or miss.
Drew McManus: From what I hear that's very true, the difference, of course, is one is a training ensemble as opposed to the Florida Philharmonic, which was a professional ICSOM ensemble.
<Mary832>: What do you do when you are not running Adaptistration?
Drew McManus: I have a wide variety of projects and consulting work related to the business as well as a host of new responsibilities related to my work with polyphonic.org. Plus I enjoy woodworking.
<Musician>: What is polyphonic.org and what are you doing with them?
Drew McManus: Polyphonic.org is an orchestra musician focused website and is part of the Orchestra Musician Forum, founded by Paul R. Judy. It's being managed under the auspices of the Eastman School of Music and my duties include serving as Senior Editor and Research Principal. It's a musician focused Yin to my management focused Yang at Adaptistration.
<Mary832>: How is polyphonic.org different from MyAuditions?
Drew McManus: There are a number of differences, the first of which is that MyAuditions focuses a great deal of effort on audition related issues whereas Polyphonic focuses on issues related to musicians who are already in orchestras. If you are familiar with the Symphony Orchestra Institute, Paul Judy's former endeavor, Polyphonic is more closely related to that project than to MyAuditions.
<NYCflute>: How is polyphonic funded, supported?
Drew McManus: Mostly from funds donated by Paul Judy and through additional support sources related to the Eastman School of Music.
<Musician>: But isn't that what these chats and the general forums are for?
Drew McManus: I'm not certain I understand your question.
<Musician>: Does not MyAuditions address issues related to musicians already in orchestras through their forums? I see you have contributed greatly to those forums so I am at a loss as to why you think MyAuditions does not also focus on professionals?
Drew McManus: I don't think I ever said MyAuditions doesn't address issues related to established players in their discussion forums. However, I did say that Polyphonic.org is going to focus on those issues exclusively. Furthermore, another distinct difference is that Polyphonic.org is sponsoring comprehensive research projects (one of which I'm currently conducting) as well as generating a great deal of original content in the form of articles , video interviews, virtual panel discussions, point/counterpoint sessions, and more.
<Musician>: What's your take on Louisville?
Drew McManus: That's a big question. I recently published a series of several articles at Adaptistration which go into great detail about Louisville. So to save myself the time it would take to retype all of it I will have to point you in that direction. Although I will say that their situation has no valid reason for degrading to the level it has.
<BenScott>: Do you think it’s easier to get into the management side of music more independently, or to work with an orchestra? Particularly in the context of trying to develop outreach programs.
Drew McManus: Interesting question, but could you be a little more specific?
<BenScott>: What is your experience with outreach programs and orchestras? Do you think they are effective?
Drew McManus: Yes, they certainly can be. I've developed several programs designed to attract adult listeners as well as an extensive program designed to create a core of orchestra docents trained in the skill of public interpretation.
<BenScott>: Right now I’m playing but I'm considering changing my career focus.
Drew McManus: I see, well I would say that you should continue to play if you enjoy it and you can make a living. Otherwise, there's quite a bit out there to select from which is still related to the business of classical music.
<Sigurd01> Any advice to all of us on dealing with the stress of the current auditioning format?
Drew McManus: Everyone is different. However, I would say that a good place to start would be to learn how to minimize the outside stress from logistical issues related to auditioning, many of which are beyond an individual’s control; such as plane trips, hotel stays, etc. Try to get the most comfortable and least stressful travel and lodging solutions you can afford so you can be as relaxed as possible at the audition.
<Sigurd01 >: Impersonal screens, etc
Drew McManus: The screens are your friend. Nevertheless, you should be able to play as well with the screen up or down. It's a matter of turning the skill on and off when needed; it’s what you learn in school and put into practice in the real world.
<NYCflute>: It says here that you are a musician, manager and cultural entrepreneur. That's a lot. What instrument do you play, who do you manage, and what sort of entrepreneur stuff do you do?
Drew McManus: I majored in tuba performance but I also play the piano, conduct, and arrange. I have founded a 501c3 dedicated to raising funds for gynecologic cancer treatment as well as established a chamber orchestra in the Baltimore area which I served as executive director and principal conductor. More info on those endeavors are available in my bio at www.drewmcmanus.net
Patriciali: Do you consult for recording companies as well? How is management in that field like?
Drew McManus: No, I don't although I have been getting involved more and more in online distribution of music which is related to the recording business.
Rushyama: You mentioned earlier that you're not a big fan of academic AA programs. Would you mind explaining that a little further? Are there any you might recommend, and are there other methods of training that you think are more useful?
Drew McManus: I have written several articles at Adaptistration on the subject, including what I would put in an AA program if I could design one. In general, I think the problems are rooted in the fact that they don’t cover enough of what actually happens in certain performing arts mediums and they are too generic in their training. Meaning, managers in different fields (dance, orchestra, opera, etc.) all have enough unique components that a catch-all AA course isn’t capable of delivering enough focus on issues related to what future managers will need.
<Arvid>: Regarding your programs, which orchestras are employing them into their current programs?
Drew McManus: I try not to talk about the orchestras I work with unless I've completed a contract or if there’s a nondisclosure agreement. Since the majority of work I do from the last few years is labor related, most of the work is covered by the nondisclosure statements and the rest are still open. However, I do end up doing quite a bit of short term website analysis to help orchestras improve their online presence. Every year I publish an orchestra website review at Adaptistration and a good deal of work is generated related to those reviews.
<Katie>: As a musician who is getting ready to go into management, I would love to know how you find the time to still play (if you do,) publish your extensive Blog and write contributing articles for numerous publications, and run your GYN. cancer foundation?
Drew McManus: Starbucks...
Drew McManus: However, I no longer run the 501c3 or the chamber orchestra but I can say that working from home is a large benefit in managing my time. I’ll also say that a 9-5 attitude would never cut it. work is life and life is work. If I didn’t enjoy the work, I wouldn’t like my life very much.
<Katie>: Are you happier (more satisfied) now than as a player?
Drew McManus: I still play, teach, and arrange. I don't think I would be happy otherwise.
<Katie>: Have you thought about going back into management
Drew McManus: I enjoy the consulting and research related work I do now a great deal but I never close off my options since you can't predict the future.
<Mary832>: Can you mention any orchestra names where you do the website analysis? I do website design on the side and have wanted to work for an orchestra on the tech side, if not as a musician. Any orchestras you can steer me to would be appreciated!
Drew McManus: Every orchestra needs a website although not many of them employ a full time IT or webmaster. However, I would suggest you simply get out there and sell yourself.
<BenScott>: Where would you say is the biggest growth area in the music industry right now, coming from a classical music background?
Drew McManus: There's opportunity everywhere. I always like to start off my speaking engagements by saying “There's never been a better time to be in the business” because the opportunity for growth and expansion has never been greater.
Drew McManus: As such, I don't think there's any single aspect which stands out but I do think there's going to be a large amount of market growth related to online based services.
<NYCflute>: You could start another orchestra and conduct it!
Drew McManus: One day I would like to do that. I am moving to Chicago in a month and they do need a chamber orchestra.
<NYCflute>: Why does Chicago "need" a chamber orchestra?
Drew McManus: Every metropolitan area needs an established chamber orchestra as well as a brass band, full orchestra, opera company, ballet company, youth ensembles, community groups, and a regular chamber series. Society without full time cultural opportunities isn’t much of a culture.
<Katie>: I love your blog - I'm an orchestra news addict. I have a question about the balance between artistic integrity and greatness vs. the needs of the community e.g.-- The Cleveland Orchestra -- what do you think should be an orchestra's larger concern (or do they have to be in conflict at all?).
Drew McManus: Personally, any performing arts group is there to create whatever art it focuses on. Serving the community is an overused term these days and fairly vague in nature. For example, you serve the community by putting on top notch programs and playing very well. You also serve the community by offering educational resources or providing youth and community ensembles so depending on which area you want to focus, “serving the community” is pretty fluid (and unique to each community).
<Katie>: But what if the majority of the people who live in Cleveland can’t afford to go to their concerts
Drew McManus: Ticket prices are a big issue with me. I tend to believe that concert prices are far too high and orchestras need to find a way to subsidize the revenue they need from ticket sales in other ways.
<NYCflute>: What about the Chicago Sinfonietta? Don’t they count in your view?
What about Dieter Kobe's Chicago Chamber Orchestra? Don't they count?
Drew McManus: When I talk about a chamber orchestra, I'm referring to full time ensembles like the St. Paul Chamber orchestra or the Orchestra of St. Luke’s.
<NYCflute>: What's the connection between St. Paul and St. Luke's (besides the Saint in their names?)
Drew McManus: They are both organizations which have established concert seasons with more than, say, six concerts as well as maintaining multi-million dollar budgets. They also compensate the bulk of their musicians with a living wage.
Drew McManus: Although it is interesting that the other groups both have "St." in their names and are among the only chamber orchestras to reach their respective levels. I guess that might be why Academy of St. Martins in the Field is also successful.
<Mary832>: What's a living wage?
Drew McManus: The federal government classifies a poverty wage at around $13,000-$17,000 depending on which agency you consult. If you earn below a poverty wage, that's certainly not living.
<NYCflute>: So six is the magic number to be a chamber orchestra? St. Paul gets its name from its city; St. Luke's gets its name from the church where they started many years ago.
Drew McManus: Of course, there is no magic number but there's a large difference between ensembles which offer their musicians a living wage and those which don't. I can't think of any who offer a living wage but only have a six concert season (although that would certainly be a prime job).
<DWhit17>: Drew, the problem with orchestra ticket prices is that prices are dictated by what senior management feels the value of the ticket versus what the community can afford is. What is your suggestion for trying to fix this problem? This was a problem that doomed the Florida Philharmonic. We priced ourselves right out of the market.
Drew McManus: I've written about this topic quite a bit at Adaptistration but in a nutshell, I think most organizations will need to establish a separate endowment to slowly begin subsidizing ticket revenue.
<Musician>: Just curious, why are you moving to Chicago?
Drew McManus: It's a wonderful town!
<Mary832>: Would you suggest that musicians going to a conservatory major in just music or do a double major as a backup?
Drew McManus: I don't agree with the whole "back up" degree mentality but I realize that I'm in the minority with that. I think you should concentrate and focus your efforts on what you want to do. If you try and fail then you can easily go back to school for another three to six semesters and get your teaching certification or another degree.
<Musician>: Can you tell me what the difference is between ICSOM and ROPA?
Drew McManus: There are specific differences, but in general it comes down to the budget size of the organization, how many core musicians they employ (meaning full time players) and base pay figures. Oh, and they also consider the minimum length of season.
<Arvid>: What do you think of this web site MyAuditions? Do you think long term they are a viable service for musicians or would you recommend some other web sites to use as well?
Drew McManus: I think the folks here at MA (MyAuditions) do a great job and they'll continue to be successful as long as they deliver what their users need.
<DWhit17>: Have you gotten positive feedback from both sides of the Louisville
situation?
Drew McManus: Unfortunately, I can't speak to the content of the discussions I've had with both sides at Louisville beyond what I've already published but I do feel that a solution is right at their fingertips and it doesn't include shutting the organization down or gutting it out.
<DWhit17>: You don't have to speak to the content. Has it been positive?
Drew McManus: Positive and negative are subjective words I'm afraid. I wish I could say more but I can't without betraying trust.
<Mary832>: Have you acted as a negotiator or mediator in discussions such as Louisville? If so, what is your strategy for breaking through an impasse?
Drew McManus: I have served in that capacity before, sometimes directly and sometimes as an advisor to one side or the other. The first piece of advice is leave emotions out of it and be ready to compromise. If either party approaches mediation with the intent to use it as a way to force their agenda then it won't work. I also believe mediations need to have incentives and consequences for both parties beyond that of simply coming to an agreement.
<BenScott>: What is your experience with helping orchestra members (especially young ones) getting re-compensated for damage to the ears; e.g. hearing loss, tinnitus.
Drew McManus: No experience at all and I'm not entirely sure what you mean by “re-compensated”.
<Musician>: I use the MyAuditions forums quite a bit and have not seen you around them for quite some time. You are greatly missed!
Drew McManus: Thank you, I wish I had some more time to participate but things are very busy right now with the impending move and Polyphonic.org launching in April. But I troll the messages (discussion forums) every morning. I also let some discussion pass by since they overlap with previous discussions. Of course, issues naturally cycle through a discussion board from time to time so that’s not an unusual thing at all.
<Mary832>: Do you think the ASOL is a good thing for musicians? I hear mixed signals from friends about them.
Drew McManus: It depends on which aspects you are referring to but I think that a service organization representing orchestras is absolutely something the business requires. Whether or not it’s good for musicians depends on the specific topic. I’ve witnessed programs from the League that I would say are absolutely beneficial to players and just as many if not more that are detrimental.
<Musician>: What do you think about schools like Eastman, Juilliard, Oberlin, etc offering business programs in the core curriculum to music degrees? Do you think it will make us better musicians, better prepared or view it as a distraction?
Drew McManus: I'm one of the regular guest lecturers at Eastman’s Institute for Music Leadership program and I do think they are a good thing, of course, they need to be designed and implemented properly but that's the trick with any useful program. I don’t think such courses are ever a distraction because no matter how uninvolved a musician would like to be throughout their career they will end up dealing with these issues if they want to or not.
<Musician>: How would you design them and what courses would you include?
Drew McManus: I wish I could answer that in the few moments we have left but I can only offer a few thoughts: I would definitely add components which would cover negotiations, the duty of fair representation for committee service, and how to monitor the health of an ensemble.
MyAuditions: Drew, we have time for one last question.
Drew McManus: Sure thing
<DWhit17>: Best way to communicate with you?
Drew McManus: drew@drewmcmanus.net
MyAuditions: That is the last question for this evenings celebrity chat. MyAuditions would very much like to thank Drew for taking the time this evening to chat with us.
Drew McManus: It's my pleasure
MyAuditions: Thank you Drew. A transcript of this evening's chat will be made available to members in the coming days. Look for the link “Event Transcripts” on the celebrity chat main page if you wish to access it.
Drew McManus: Thank you to everyone who stopped in for the chat, I apologize if I haven’t been able to address or follow-up on any specific questions.
MyAuditions: Please make sure that you check our schedule for upcoming celebrity chat events. In April, our featured celebrity chat will be with Frank Almond, concertmaster with the Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra scheduled for Monday, April 3, 2006 at 7pm Eastern Time. We hope to see you there!
MyAuditions: Thank you again Drew and thank you members for participating. This concludes this evening’s program. Good night.