Has anyone ever wanted to sneak in a tape-recorder to their audition and record ? I realize that many auditions take place in major halls which undoubtedly don't allow private recordings...but wouldn't that be so cool ? I wonder if orchestras could start doing that - having that option for the candidate. And then all of us without jobs who are whining about committees being unfair could have an totally accurate view of how we REALLY played in the moment...it would be so enlightening !

Does anybody think this could be possible ?

I definitely know several people who've brought their MD recorders in with them (secretly).

I'm much more concerned about recording myself BEFORE the actual audition.
I guess I understand why someone would want to record the actual audition, but I like to feel that I know how it's going to sound before I go out.

FWIW, some places are "cracking down" on the practice now - mentioning that it's not allowed when they send out letters.

"I guess I understand why someone would want to record the actual audition, but I like to feel that I know how it's going to sound before I go out."/Quote


i'm not suggesting abandoning the practice of recording oneself beforehand... we all like to feel confident that what comes out in the actual audition carries intent and accuracy based on prior practice and recording of oneself. but even for the most polished players things go wrong in the actual audition ! and i've talked with several members of different committees who all say one thing in common: it's how you play ON THAT DAY, and not so much emphasis on what you might be capable of, what excerpts you've perfected before,or what you've done in the past. i know that i am curious to hear myself play "on that day." one could also benefit from recording their audition because adrenaline doesn't come into play when you are alone in your living room. even those who are completely ridiculously prepared/and or inderol takers might be surprised !

Again, I see your point about why it would be interesting to record one's audition. But be advised that it is frowned upon some places, so doing it carries an element of risk.

As for adrenaline, it's pretty easy to create "realistic" conditions. You already know this, I'm sure, but for anyone that doesn't - just find a few acquaintances who make you really nervous to play for (for a trumpet player, violists are a great choice). Doing this a few times in the 2 weeks prior to an audition is great practice!

I can see it now....the pre-audition frisk for the mini-disc recorder....

I recorded my flute audition for the President's Own Marine Band back in July. I asked the proctor before I went in and she said it was ok to record.

I'm SO glad I recorded my audition for many reasons -
1) I was able to get comments from a committee member and compare them to what I actually sounded like.
2) I was able to compare my playing with the comments I scribbled down on paper right after the audition. I learned that I didn't sound quite as hideous as I thought I did!
3) I have a better idea of what I sound like under pressure in an audition situation. Studying the recording of my audition revealed some small, teeny-tiny things to me (things that didn't come out recording myself during practice sessions/mock auditions for friends) that may help me advance past the first round in the future.
4) I feel more justified in the costs associated with auditioning by getting to listen to how I sounded. Let's face it, if you're going to pay for a plane ticket, car rental, hotel, and food to play a 5 minute audition, you should at least get some kind of feedback whether it be comments or a recording.

I'm hoping I'll be able to record auditions in the future. Yes, I know I can get a similar adrenaline rush by popping a beta blocker, running up and down a staircase, and then playing a mock audition with the minidisc rolling, but I'm hooked on recording auditions now. Too bad I won't be able to do this at the upcoming Baltimore Symphony audition!

I really don't understand why any orchestra would forbid candidates from recording their own audition for personal purposes. Obviously, if someone was requesting extended microphone setup time or something, or asking that the orchestra itself provide recordings, there would be good reasons to refuse (time and cost, respectively,) but if it's just a matter of the candidate dropping a minidisc recorder and a mic on the floor and hitting record, what's the problem? Has anyone who has asked and been refused the right to record an audition been given a specific reason for the ban?

That's an excellent question, Sam.

It might have to do with particular organizations having rights over who can/can't record in the hall. Halfway through my time at the Peabody Conservatory, they terminated our rights to use personal recording devices in the halls. We were told that we could only use services provided by the recording department. (AND we had to pay steep hall rental fees, but that's another topic for antoher day.)

Many students complained, of course. We were fed some BS excuse about an affiliation with ASCAP and risk of potential copyright infringement or something like that if all recording isn't monitored by the recording department. Maybe it's a similar issue with professional halls?

I think that some organizations forbid the recording because the ridiculous (but eventually probable) notion that someone could submit what they recorded and start arguing that they should have advanced, or been offered the job; basically question the decisions of the judges. Although many places state that the decision of the committe is final, you would be amazed how persistent some people can get - arm them with a recording of their audition and it could be a nightmare!

Just my thoughts....

weiner 2, this could be true. it could be a wannabe lawsuit just waiting to happen, although i don't think it would get to that point. even if someone sounded 'better' & they had audible proof, it's still a committee's right to choose who they want. i've never brought my recording device to an audition, but i usually have enough to worry about, such as finding the place, having ample time to warm-up & so on. i should worry more about how i know i play, & piddling w/ a recorder is the LAST thing i want to deal with. i was curious about this question though. it would've been more useful if i were about to take my 1st couple of auditions, maybe.

For those that have yet to rack up more than a dozen or so auditions - Invite your friends over; musicians & non; and do a mock audition and record that. Believe me - you will learn more than you will have time to fix if the audition is within ....oh 6 months or so....

Just my thoughs.....

quote:

Many students complained, of course. We were fed some BS excuse about an affiliation with ASCAP and risk of potential copyright infringement or something like that if all recording isn't monitored by the recording department. Maybe it's a similar issue with professional halls?

Yes, 100% BS. They just wanted you to rent their stuff/guy.

quote:

I think that some organizations forbid the recording because the ridiculous (but eventually probable) notion that someone could submit what they recorded and start arguing that they should have advanced, or been offered the job; basically question the decisions of the judges.

Its not ridiculous in America, land of lawsuits If you got the right judge and lawyer, you might be surprised. People are winning crazy lawsuits all the time.

As for recording: it could be very embarrassing for an orchestra if the tapes became public. Lets face it, not ALL auditions are fair. We have all heard sour grapes stories of " I played great and it was rigged" etc. I would LOVE to hear a tape that backed that statement up. You would learn if indeed the committee was out to lunch or if the player was.

Would it really matter if one candidate's tape was made public? It might be "flawless" but couldn't a committee argue that the other candidates who didn't record their auditions all played better? There's no way to tell, even if everyone recorded their own audition, because then you have discrepancies between recording equipment and levels, mic placement, etc. I've always suspected the lawsuit thing as the reason why some orchestras forbid recording and feedback, but it really seems ridiculous to me.

Now if the orchestra itself recorded all the auditions, and those were made public, that could be a different can of worms. But it seems silly to prohibit someone from taking an extra ten seconds to set down a recorder and press play if he or she thinks it will help them in the long run.

quote:

Would it really matter if one candidate's tape was made public? It might be "flawless" but couldn't a committee argue that the other candidates who didn't record their auditions all played better?

It would certainly be revealing if nothing else. As a committee member, I had someone tell me that their friend played flawlessly and they asked me if an audition was rigged. Their friend stunk up the joint, seriously. So, the player was basically lying and thus trying to damage the reputation of the band. If that audition was taped and he played it for others, they would see the truth right away.

Some people have legit gripes about auditions, some people are just bad losers. The tape would give you some version of truth. It might even give the player the truth, its a pressure situation and its hard to remember exactly what happened.

These days it would be VERY easy to record your audition. A lil digital Zoom with built-in mic would fit in anybodys pocket.

MyAuditions has been investigating for about two years how we can distribute audio recordings of candidate excerpts through MyAuditions to orchestras.

What we came up with is to allow candidates to upload audio files of their excerpts and attach them to their resume through their MyAuditions account. They can then pick and choose which excerpts to submit for which audition. The employer receives the "audio resume" with the attached recordings.

The purpose of this service would be for orchestras and ensembles who request audio recordings prior to preliminary auditions.

As for the recording itself, it will be up to the candidate to produce a high quality recording. We may also offer video uploads as well.

We have the technology in place on the service but management is still working on the guidelines and considering the cost of making such a service available to members.

Joshua Tate, Customer Support Advocate
MyAuditions - Performing Arts Career Resources
www.myauditions.com

I wonder if recording yourself during an audition would bake you even more nervous? I have many friends that have done it and they seem to have done well because of it though. I might start thinking about doing this myself, if I can get over the sobering factor of listening to myself under the gun.

Personally, I have enough to think about without worrying about a recorder. When I take an audition I'm focused %100 on my instrument and the music I am about to play. I think that if you are really really prepared, and confident in your preparation there's absolutely no need to record it. Having won a few auditions, I can tell you that if I had my final rounds on tape, I would never even want to listen to it. But this is all just my opinion. What I WOULD like to listen to, again and again, is when the committee announces that I won
I am not sure of any possible legal problems that would arise, although I can tell you that personal recording devices are not allowed to be used by orchestra members during rehearsals, as was recently brought up in my orchestra.

quote:

Originally posted by Sam Bergman:
I really don't understand why any orchestra would forbid candidates from recording their own audition for personal purposes.

True, but the problem is that it's difficult to guarantee that the tape would be used solely for personal purposes. As we all know from reading posts on this site, there is already much speculation as to the fairness of practically every audition that takes place. I worry that adding one more potential method of disputing the results could result in more fratricide. Perhaps this would apply not so much in the finals, but to whether or not a candidate should have been advanced from the prelims or semis.

And I also worry that the candidate may become overly discouraged when listening to the tape of himself. From my own experience I know that I HATE to hear a recording of myself and am always horribly disappointed, so I avoid it like the plague. Most of us are (hopefully) much more critical of our own playing than that of others, and recording our own audition might degenerate into an exercise in masochism. Of course some musicians may be able to be objective and overcome this effect, but in my experience it's difficult.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Feuermann,

quote:

Originally posted by SDBassoon:
Personally, I have enough to think about without worrying about a recorder. When I take an audition I'm focused %100 on my instrument and the music I am about to play. I think that if you are really really prepared, and confident in your preparation there's absolutely no need to record it. Having won a few auditions, I can tell you that if I had my final rounds on tape, I would never even want to listen to it. But this is all just my opinion. What I WOULD like to listen to, again and again, is when the committee announces that I won

I agree with this about having another thing to worry about in the audition process, & how super prepared a player should be to begin with without trying to use an excuse like "well, my recording was so good & clean". even if a player does play "cleaner" than someone else that progressed further in the process, sometimes the committee isn't just focused on that anyway. I know on some occasions i've been passed on when it wasn't as clean as it should've been, & others where i thought for sure i would be passed on because it was clean & i had played a couple more excerpts than other people had - but then surprisingly didn't get passed on. Then when i think about it (& sometimes replay my home recordings), rhythm/dynamics may have been a factor. So, I personally wouldn't use one myself, & I guess it's up to individual orchestras to decide whether they want to allow it or not - but I'm guessing most would rather not bother with it.

I think what we are all forgetting is that even the best recording equiptment can not pick up all of the nuance in sound and phrasing. It also happens that the nuance in sound and phrasing is also very subjective, but ultimately what it most important when trying to find a "good fit" for the orchestra.