Ok, here's another one to toss around. Has anyone found that more and more now, orchestras are making the application process quite drawn out, with lots of little hoops to jump through? I have heard/ experienced recently the following process:

1) Resume is sent in to orchestra x expressing your intent to take the audition.

2) Orchestra x responds a week after the resume dealine stating they have received your resume and need you to fill out and send in the attached application.

3) You fill out the application, including questions that could have been answered by looking at your resume (already sent in) and the required referrences, and wait to hear back from orchestra x. (All the meanwhile airfares are climbing)

4) Several weeks later, orchestra x writes back finally inviting you to the audition and sometimes even giving you a specific audition time.

What makes this so frustrating is that the process takes so long and includes what seems to me to be useless gathering of information. It prevents you from planning your journey until sometimes the last minute and ends up costing you more money (including overnight shipping of your application if the orchestra won't guarantee you the day you need to make it work with your schedule).

Has this application process gotten more complex than it needs to be? Are referrences actually called? What does where I went to high school have to do with whether or not I'm qualified for the job? And yes, I realize we all have the obligatory bottom line on our resumes stating "Referrences Available Upon Request" but unless it's used to call your teacher/ conductor and ask if they think you're qualified, this seems unnecessary (i.e. asking for referrences after you've been invited).

I am being a little sarcastic but it would be nice to see if other people have had similar experiences and find that the process could be simplified a little bit (i.e. reducing the number of steps it takes to get your audition time which in turn could save people some time, money and sanity).

quote:

Originally posted by RDC:
(All the meanwhile airfares are climbing)

This is a frustration for me. While it's nice to have a relatively late resume date, this is coming to mean that none of the resumes are reviewed, and therefore no invitations are given much more than two or three weeks in advance of the audition.

I would suggest that resume dates be closer to two months in advance of the actual audition to give auditionees at least 4-6 weeks to arrange travel, etc. Those who can't decide if they'd like to attend can submit their resumes early and withdraw later if they so choose.

Alternatively, applicants should get a preliminary response of either "yes, you will be invited to play an audition on such-and-such day; we will contact you with an exact time when the resume date passes," or "we are unable to invite you at this time, but once the resume date passes, we will re-evaluate your application based on the other applications we receive."

At least this way, applicants have a clue as to where they stand, and can start to plan accordingly.

I've never really had this problem with the big groups, only per-service groups. A few years ago, there was one per-service group where I had sent in a resume, & never heard anything back in time to plan anything. By the time they had gotten back to me, they had changed the date to a couple of weeks later than scheduled. If I don't get any notification in time to make any plans, I don't bother. Sometimes it's nice to see something that has a resume date close to the audition because if it's a close distance, you could take something at the last minute. If there's airfare involved, I wouldn't bother, unless you find a nice last minute week before deal (& I have done that).

But like I said, usually the salaried groups are better about that. And I don't think references are called very often, but I could be wrong. I actually asked a couple of references if they had been contacted, & they said they never were (& this was for finals & semis of a couple of different groups). I guess they would only need to if you're a winner or runner-up. I'd be interested to see if anyone else has experienced references being checked for prelims, or any other rounds for that matter.

I also have never had my referrences contacted. Nor have I heard of anyone else´s being contacted. The experiences I am sharing have come from top orchestras around the U.S., not per-service groups. What can really take time is when the orchestra asks for the contact information including phone numbers and addresses. It takes time to gather that information from people. If you need to request a certain day and it´s on a first come first serve basis, you end up waiting around for your referrences to get back to you with their contact info, all the meanwhile time slots are being taken up.

I don't know if the person who started this thread is talking about the Detroit audition, but this has also been my recent experience. I sent in my resume, then they want me to write down my current employer and their contact info on an application. I just wrote down my orchestra's name and left everything else blank. Why do they need to contact my employer? I guess I understand the first page of the application which asked about citizenshp/visa status and criminal record, but the second page detailing current work situation seems ridiculous. There's no way they are going to check up on the hundreds of people applying for that position.

Regarding Steps 1-3 in the original posting:

Applications are official employment documents in any company (or orchestra where musicians are employees); resumes are not. Even though the two contain substantially similar, if not identical, info, most firms will always ask you to fill out both because they have more legal recourse if you lie/mis-state something on an application.

Regarding references: this has gotten very tricky from a legal standpoint outside of the orchestra world, so perhaps its trickled its way inside of full-time orchestras too. Essentially, the use of information from references -- even ones provided by the applicant -- can come back to bite an employer if that information is ultimately what led to them NOT picking somebody. It's rare, but it does happen, and when it does, it is inevitably messy. More and more employers only use references to verify nature of employment and dates of employment. But employers still ask so they can reserve the right to contact references if they so choose.

Sorry. Not the orchestras fault. Blame the employment attorneys for these.

(This is the kind of random knowledge you gain when you have an HR consultant for a wife)

That is good information to know about the applications. Why don't orchestras who plan on requiring these applications to be filled out make them available from the beginning? This way they can be sent in with the resumes which in turn eliminates one of the steps-- thus saving time.

My wife told me about a situation recently where a company (not music-related) made prospective interviewees fill out an employment application TWICE: once online before you were even given the interview, the second in the waiting room on the day of the interview before it actually began.

Completely redundant, completely ridiculous and unnecessary. No prior notice given to applicants. Horrible practice not to be encouraged by any hiring organization. Unfortunately, it is completely legal, and if you want a job at Company X, you have to go through the process.

Some orchestras- e.g. in Denmark - use application forms ONLY. I understand this very well - much easier to compare resumes if they are all in the same format. And you get the information you ask for.

I have also heard about giving the same information a second time just before interview. Surprisingly often, the information is different from the first time. Telling quite a lot about a person.

How do American orchestras deal with the problem that lots of people apply, and just a few of the invited applicants actually show up for the audition? In my orchestra, we have had auditions with 20-30 invited applicants, but just 4 showing up.

quote:

Originally posted by Eurobassoon:
How do American orchestras deal with the problem that lots of people apply, and just a few of the invited applicants actually show up for the audition?

Almost without exception, American orchestras require applicants to send a deposit with their application - usually $50-$100. The check is held by the orchestra until the audition. If you show up, you get your check back. If you call in advance to cancel, you get your check back. If you're just a no-show, the orchestra deposits the check. The prospect of losing the cash is enough to convince most people to call if they're not going to make it.