I was wondering if anyone had information on the base pay in the Tonhalle and how much overscale a wind principal there could expect to make ?

Is there an AFM equivalent website for Europe that lists length of season, base pay, and the like ?

Thanks to any and all with any information.

Warm regards.

Finding information about pay scale in Europe can be frustrating. Some places openly advertise the amounts some do not. Also I have noticed many folks in Europe do not feel openly comfortable talking about such issues. I can tell you that I rather sure that the Tonhalle is one of Europe's better paid orchestras( it should be you have to live in Zurich). I can also tell you that I recently saw and ad for a principal position in Basel and is was listed at somewhere between 9?,000-110,000 CHF. Please don't quote me on the number, my memory is pretty lousy. At least that can give you a ball park. I am rather sure that Tonhalle is in the same tier.

If anybody knows of a web page where you can look up contract info for Europe like the AFM page, I would love to know what it is too. As of now I have not been able to find it.

Well, some of you people will be happy to discover that Europe contains many different countries, with different legal systems, different salary, tax and insurance systems, and not at least very different traditions when it comes to salary negotiations, unions and so on.

So, of course there is no "European" equivalent of the AFM. There are equivalents in many of the European countries, though, but some places there are different unions for different orchestras, other places there is no union (like one place I worked, where all the musicians left the union because the union officers accepted bribes from the management).

And: if you found the gross salaries of musicians in different countries and orchestras, it's impossible to compare, because the cost of living, the level of tax etc is so different from place to place.

Paukenguy is very right about one thing: it is not common in central and southern Europe to talk about one's salary. It's considered a matter between each individual and their workplace, and the union if applicable.

Generally speaking: The highest salaries are found in Germany's Radio orchestras and big symphony/philharmonic orchestras. (But the combined opera/theatre/orchestra-companies in smaller cities are a totally different story). The payments in Switzerland are also known to be very good, and I think Tonhalle and Zurich opera are the best paid ones there. Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain, Italy, Austria, all of Scandinavia - generally varying between what I would call "decent" and "good". Britain is, surprisingly, on the lower end, but the BBC system is better than the rest. London Symphony doesn't even give their musicians tenure at all.

Thanks very much to you both for your input.

Just to clarify, Eurobassoon, I was asking for a European equivalent to the *website* itself, not to the American Federation of Musicians; I thought that was clear. It doesn't seem all that far-fetched that some website might have compiled this very basic data in a clearing house, especially given the mobility of musicians there. Such a website might only provide bare numbers, but might be valuable in getting an idea of what an orchestra pays and whether or not one would even want to take the audition. A musician from outside Europe could be interested in taking an audition with an orchestra there and yet lose interest when it becomes clear that said orchestra does not pay enough to make the transition financially feasible.

The website for AFM doesn't list differences in cost of living or taxation by state or city either (which can also vary widely), and yet it is illuminating in deciding whether or not to investigate an announced vacancy. Contrary to what you imply, I feel some information is better than none at all.

Obviously, I know that there are many countries in Europe, having studied there. I imagine most of my colleagues here know this as well. In any event, thank you for the update.

Sincerely,
a colleague from darkest America