So, here's a generalization. But hopefully it will get your minds thinking...
Ticket sales have been declining for YEARS.
When ticket sales were booming, there wasn't a screen at auditions. Correct?

Solution: Take down that screen at the beginning again. Go over to the conductor's house for dinner and play an audition. Bring everything a little closer to home. Make it a little more human. We are all trained now to act politically correct, to listen with less-prejudice ears, etc. and blah blah blah. Also, half of the battle of getting tenure is how well you fit into an orchestra right? Most musicians are smart. Most smart people are intuitive about one's personality, etc. You can't tell what someone is like when the screen is up.

TAKE THAT SCREEN DOWN!

I don't understand the connection. The screen was put in place to allow women a fair shake at auditions, and the number of women in symphony orchestras rose dramatically as a result. And while there is certainly considerably less sexism in the industry than there was a few decades ago, the screen has come to symbolize at least an effort at fairness for all. Since most of the audience is completely unaware of the audition process, what does the screen have to do with ticket sales?

Well, back in the days when ticket sales were better and recordings were being made "left and right" there wasn't a screen. Right?
Why not open it up like Americna Idol? Advertise--show who's coming to the audition--what they're like , etc. Market those auditions!

flutewoman5, that has got to be the most ***** thing I have ever read on these forums. Why don't we make it more like fear factor where you would have to eat the conductor's feces or something to have a shot at winning? Sound good?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: MyAuditions,

Now that would be exciting! HAHA...just trying to spruce things up a bit.

Oh my god.

PLEASE.

For the sake of humanity.

STOP filling these potentially useful boards with absolutely useless, and criminally ignorant nonsense.

and PLEASE. Do not drink and blog at the same time.

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The only thing the orignial post on this thread gets me thinking, is that more experienced members need to start educating younger players about how the orchestra world works, and why we are in situations we are in now...and younger players should listen! The level of ignorance is clearly higher than I thought!

See? I really don't think it would be such a horrible thing for orchestras--but, I am sure there are many out there reading this that are scared that their orchestra will read this and things will start to change---This is the one thing that the Marketing Departments haven't touched and I think it's a HUGE can of worms that could be a potential winner--as scary as it may sound to musicians. Why not look at it as a good prospect?

flutewoman, there's simple logic to consider here. Screens and ticket sales are not in some kind of causal relationship.

The idea that orchestras should market their players (as opposed to the Music Director, etc.) is one that is catching on in some places, and makes some sense.

But the exploitation of the audition process for marketing purposes has no precedent - therefore your initial contention that one has anything to do with the other is, well... Furthermore, it would totally compromise the artistic integrity of the process. That's kind of a big deal.

I suppose every musician has an "I've got it!" moment in their lives. We've seen dozens here on MyAuditions over the past couple of years. I'm all for creative thinking - but ideas need to make sense to work (usually). Yours doesn't, I'm afraid. Let us know if any marketing departments contact you to follow up.

Also, I don't think Dave S is agreeing with you (correct me if I'm wrong, Dave).

quote:

Originally posted by flutewoman5:
So, here's a generalization. But hopefully it will get your minds thinking...
Ticket sales have been declining for YEARS.
When ticket sales were booming, there wasn't a screen at auditions. Correct?

Solution: Take down that screen at the beginning again. Go over to the conductor's house for dinner and play an audition. Bring everything a little closer to home. Make it a little more human. We are all trained now to act politically correct, to listen with less-prejudice ears, etc. and blah blah blah. Also, half of the battle of getting tenure is how well you fit into an orchestra right? Most musicians are smart. Most smart people are intuitive about one's personality, etc. You can't tell what someone is like when the screen is up.

TAKE THAT SCREEN DOWN!

I cant recall seeing a post here with less disregard for analysis or facts.

Logic be damned! Who cares about political correctness anyway, it's so overerated. I think that what she is saying is that we should hire people that would sex up the orchestra business. I mean playing scales is so overrated, why don't music students work on "putting out" more?

I for one am sick and tired of sitting next to ugly old people in my section. Why don't we just say "sexy ladies only please" in the ads in Int'l Musician. We could also fire unattractive people in the orchestra in order to increase ticket sales.

Bye for now, I am off to commit some hate crimes!

flutewoman5's post reminds me of a great story from one of our recently-retired veteran players:

The player in question was female, and had been a substitute player for a bit, but when her husband took an academic sabbatical to Italy for a year, she gave up her playing work and went with him. Upon her return, she learned that auditions for her instrument would take place the following week. Several days before the audition was to take place (at the maestro's home, no less) she took ill, and was unable to practice for a day or two. Frantic, she called a friend already in the orchestra and asked her advice on what to do at the audition, since she was unsure of her preparation. Her friend, a sage and canny violist, suggested the following: dye your hair blonde and dress like you're "available". She got the job. Ah, the good old days...

ehhhh, I'd have to disagree here, I think the screen is there for a reason. I think it should be up to the orchestra to decide whether or not to take the screen down during semis or finals. However, I think it's kind of awkward for some orchestras to keep it screened the whole process. Not that it would be a superficial reason to take it down at least at the last round, but don't they want to at least <i>see</i> who they potentially want to hire instead of getting whomever just happens to sound the best?

As far as dressing like you're "available" (lol), I've heard of some interesting examples of how some women (various instruments) who dressed "sexy" & showed cleavage won auditions over those who dressed conservatively. Not saying they didn't deserve the job or not, I wasn't there, but ladies, PLEASE, dress appropriately!!!! This also goes for those who look like they just got out of the gym, whether they're playing in prelims or whatever

quote:

Ticket sales have been declining for YEARS.

I dont think that is accurate. If it is, it has to do with about 6 zillion reasons of why they are down. The audition process is not one of them.

Okay--here's where I will argue.
The audition process can not be a direct reason why the ticket sales are not as great.
But, what could a change in the audition process do FOR the ticket sales?
I would bet that if a non-union orchestra tried this out--took down the screen for the final round, advertised the finalists in the local paper/online, etc. , invited a certain amount of the public to sit in (they can't talk, etc.)---that there would be more interest.
THIS WOULD CREATE DRAMA. People like drama.
I want to see what it would do for the ticket sales. I wish an orchestra would be progressive enough to try this out?

quote:

Originally posted by flutewoman5:
THIS WOULD CREATE DRAMA. People like drama.
I want to see what it would do for the ticket sales. I wish an orchestra would be progressive enough to try this out?

& I wish they wouldn't ;-) i hate drama, i hate reality shows, & i certainly don't want the public involved in ANYTHING related to the audition/hiring process. but that's just my differing opinion from yours. i think what goes on in the orchestras can be drama enough for me.

quote:

I would bet that if a non-union orchestra tried this out--took down the screen for the final round, advertised the finalists in the local paper/online, etc. , invited a certain amount of the public to sit in (they can't talk, etc.)---that there would be more interest.
THIS WOULD CREATE DRAMA. People like drama.
I want to see what it would do for the ticket sales. I wish an orchestra would be progressive enough to try this out?

It would create about as much enthusiasm as an open interview for the phone company or Circuit City. People would have little interest, even less understanding.

When I go to see entertainment, I wanna be entertained. I dont care about auditions or jobs, I trust those who work there to hire the best. It is a VERY BORING process.

It would go nowhere. The lack of interest would be 100%, you couldnt drag me to see a similiar event.

I agree with Sam. We must not forget why the screen is there. You only have to read about the Vienna Philharmonic!

We shall see what happens!