After an extra special rehearsal today where many of us were forced to raise our stands to block the erratic and confusing waving around coming from the podium, I thought a poll would be in order.

Question:
How often do you look at the conductor?

Choices:
I watch constantly as I would be lost with out them.
I look up only for the start and end of each piece or movement.
Who?
I wear special glasses that block my view of the conductor and I've never been happier.
Never, you know the saying, L.U.F.U.
I leave that job to my section leader.
I work in a "safe" orchestra, it's o.k. to look up.

 

LOL,

I have evenings where I want to post a thread like this. Honestly though, my poll response would have to be a combination of all those options. There are "WATCH" and "LUFU" moments with all conductors, in my experience.

Mostly I don't REALLY look up, I find I follow better using peripheral vision, & make eye contact now & then so the conductor knows I'm paying attention. (I used to think I looked up because I was always with the stick, but when people would say things like "Did you see the goofy look on his face at the big climax?" I had no idea what they were talking about.)

Ha Ha!! When the late Frederick Fennell was our (DWS) Principal Guest Conductor; we used to joke about putting on our "Freddie Visors"!! We did some amazing concerts and recordings with him but we followed him by osmosis not his baton!!

Another unamed conductor: Stomped up to the orchestra, glared at us all, gave a downbeat for the "Star Spangled Banner" and proceded to conduct the entire thing in 4!! All the while scowling, giving us the stinkeye etc. At the end of the "Banner" he muttered to the CM." Somebody's f****** around and when I find out who it is they are out of here, Union be dammed" Needless to say he wasn't asked back.


Frosty the Freelancer

OMG....watching conductors.....are you serious! Wait, I must controll myself here.......
Okay ready.
In my too many years of experience I find there are types of players, those that watch and those who take guidance. Let me explain.

The problem is this. To be exactly with the conductor, you are often NOT with the ensemble. If you are a principal player and people follow you, yeah, thats nice, but not all sections will follow your section. When wanting to change a tempo, most conductors just go to that new tempo as they have it in their head...what they don't do is get to the new tempo in proportionality (if thats a word) to the music and in a way inwhich it wouldn't sound like a train wreck if everyone did follow him to a tea! (Please note I do say most conductors)

There are the key players that should be good musicians that know how to "interpret" these changes that the conductor wants and can lead the orchestra in a way that is pleasing to the conductor (is that possible.....hmmmm...different topic entirely). Better yet is an orchestra that works together to move together. (once a more senior member said to me "you can always tell the new members as they actually follow the conductor")

Orchestral playing is ensemble playing and a seasoned player understands the desired changes and can get from A to B in a sound musical way where the ensemble is not compromised.

Okay, enough with those thought - I must admit there are conductors out there that not only will remain nameless, but are about as clear me trying to read road signs in the fog and without my glasses. Its the EARS that matter.

just my 2 cents

During a rehearsal last year, I mentioned to a colleague that I was having a super hard time following the beat. He then said seriously...."you're looking up!?" So ever since then, I have stopped looking and the problem is gone!

quote:

Originally posted by weiner2:

When wanting to change a tempo, most conductors just go to that new tempo as they have it in their head...what they don't do is get to the new tempo in proportionality (if thats a word) to the music and in a way inwhich it wouldn't sound like a train wreck if everyone did follow him to a tea! (Please note I do say most conductors)

SHOCKING !!!

This is a basic technical issue for any conductor.

You have to have 2 tempi in your head at the same time and mathematically overlap/glue these together and show clearly.

How can they continue in the profession without at least working on this issue in personal practice?

Oy. There's just way too much to this topic, and anyone who tries to cover all of it on this board risks eye strain & tendon damage. I thought weiner made a good start on it though.

We learn a lot of what we do by osmosis. For example, when I joined my group, they played pretty well together... precisely 1/2 beat behind the conductor. I'd be about to play when the baton hit bottom, and then I'd hear the [veteran]principal clarinet right behind me taking a breath, which saved me from coming in 1/2 beat "early." Now it's 3 music directors later: he's in his 4th season and I don't even know if we play in time with his beat or not. But we do play together, and much better than we used to.

Batons do not make sound.

Colleagues' instruments do.

Guess who I care about more.

The moment a conductor complains about lag behind the stick, or suggests that fixing an un-together passage requires watching him/her more closely (as opposed to listening, breathing together, subdividing, feeling the phrase the same way, or any number of other better ways of fixing ensemble), they lose my respect.

Getting to a new tempo in a proportionate way can be accomplished while playing/conducting the old tempo....chamber musicians do it all of the time....and as I said, there are a few conductors out there that do do this, and do it well too. (Please no comments on grammar)

This week in rehearsal I was so frustrated as the tempo was on the back of the beat when the orchestra was playing p but on the front when playing f. This orchestra is too good for these high school antics. If the conductor would have just mentioned this (in his stern, but nice way) the problem would have been fixed (he did this at 2nd rehearsal). If he tried to increase the speed of his conducting, the problem would have still been there, just at a faster tempo.

Like I said ---EARS and good musical sense, can go a long way.

I dream of a time where the conductors have to be re-certified every 5 years. Their orchestra can vote on what courses will need to be taken by their conductors while away at re-cert academy. Here's what I would assign for mine:

Where's the Beat 101 (or how to give a clear 'one').

Scowling, name calling and score slapping is for bullies not maestros.

Advanced "hand". This course will use electric shock therapy for conductors that abuse the "shut up" hand.

Stop the Posing (or how to remember to conduct the orchestra when cameras or board members are present).

Bring out your inner ictus (or how to conduct soft passages without the orchestra falling apart)

Pitfalls of Minuets and Trios. This course emphasizes advanced memory techniques for remembering the repeats.

Bows 101, 201, 301, 401, 501, 601, (well you get the point). How to tell from your score which musicians have solos and then how to motion to the correct musician after the concert is over.

Conductors should be seen and not heard (or threatening to kill yourself at rehearsal may backfire when the orchestra starts laughing and saying "do it".

What's that hissing noise? Conductors will be shown videos of their performances where they are hissing, grunting, singing and spitting along with the melody. Then they are forced to listen to a track without the orchestra and just their own personal noise over and over and over and over...

A few shorter courses will be required:
Finding a good tailor and dry cleaner in your town.

Undershirts and their usefulness in the orchestral environment.


Feel free to post any other required courses your orchestra needs.

must relay this experience.

Yesterday we were rehearsing a standard overture and the conductor kept trying to fuss and over controll things. He stopped at this one spot and after 2 tries things progressively got worse. Then the 3rd time it was much better - people were listening. I looked up and noticed that the orchestra was nowhere near the beat the conductor was beating - they were listening to be together. The conductor did not stop as he was then satisfied. SHHHH don't let him know....as long as he feels good things are okay for the musicians.

Good posts!

I feel in my bones perhaps "morecowbell", for example, should grab a baton and head for the podium and work out on something......(assuming you would want to use a baton) ??