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Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DHP:
Any hack with a set of encyclopedias and spell
check can become a music reviewer.


Yeah, and any hack with a few hundred dollars, some lips, lungs, and some fingers can play the French Horn. It doesn't mean you are a good one, or that someone is going to pay to hear you play the horn.

quote:
Originally posted by DHP:
Last time I checked there wasn't a degree in musical review


Geez, DHP, when was the last time you checked?? In 30 seconds, I found this at the USC Thornton School of Music's website:

"The PhD degree in historical musicology, offered by the Department of Musicology, prepares their recipients for careers in musical research, writing and university teaching. Through seminars and lectures students in musicology explore the breadth of music, including topics in music of the world, popular music, performance practices, criticism, jazz and film, theory and musical analysis."

quote:
Originally posted by DHP:
. . . or an audition tape for principal music reviewer


Allow me to be just as sarcastic: I'm sure the New Yorker never saw anything Alex Ross wrote before they hired him. Completely blind hire -- ok, maybe they looked at his resume. Oh, and that Pulitzer Prize that the much-reviled Martin Bernheimer won when he was the Music Critic of the Los Angeles Times?? -- Yeah, that's completely worthless too, because those Pulitzer guys aren't musicians nor are they Music Critics, so they must be completely ignorant hacks who have no clue what they are doing. Roll Eyes Go ahead, continue to be angry and ignorant. It's a free country.

quote:
Originally posted by DHP:
Do you honestly think there is a musician in the Philharmonic who gives a **** what some failed Julliard hack thinks?

I doubt it!

Great, then by definition, he can write his opinion of the concerts he attends, and we don't need to try to fight the Philharmonic's fights -- they don't care, after all.

quote:

Originally posted by DHP:
If you aren't putting it on the line every night then keep your trap shut.

If you are "putting it on the line every night," you are getting paid money to perform in front of other people who have paid their good money for the opportunity/priviledge. You are doing something very public, and people have a right to think you are good or you suck. On any given night you choose to "put it on the line." And if you can't handle being told you screwed up in public when, in fact, you have screwed up in public, perhaps you are better suited for an anonymous job in a cubicle somewhere where no one will pay to watch you nor will any newspaper writer come to review your work. Or perhaps you should become a music teacher or do some other musical profession that does not involve newspaper writers or potential public embarrasment when you mess up or the glory when you nail your solos.

Or perhaps you should become a music critic and show them how it really should be done.

Of course, I'm not neccessarilly talking about you yourself, DHP . . . just whoever this hypothetical "you" is you mentioned who happened to be "putting it on the line everynight."
 
Posts: 35 | Registered: November 16, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Platinum Member
Picture of Charles Noble
AIM: Online Status For noblevla
Posted Hide Post
quote:
If you are "putting it on the line every night," you are getting paid money to perform in front of other people who have paid their good money for the opportunity/priviledge. You are doing something very public, and people have a right to think you are good or you suck. On any given night you choose to "put it on the line." And if you can't handle being told you screwed up in public when, in fact, you have screwed up in public, perhaps you are better suited for an anonymous job in a cubicle somewhere where no one will pay to watch you nor will any newspaper writer come to review your work. Or perhaps you should become a music teacher or do some other musical profession that does not involve newspaper writers or potential public embarrasment when you mess up or the glory when you nail your solos.

Or perhaps you should become a music critic and show them how it really should be done.

Of course, I'm not neccessarilly talking about you yourself, DHP . . . just whoever this hypothetical "you" is you mentioned who happened to be "putting it on the line everynight."



As they say where I come from - dang...


Charles Noble
Assistant principal viola
Oregon Symphony
Daily Observations Blog
 
Posts: 313 | Location: Portland, Oregon, USA | Registered: August 31, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Heavyweight Member
Picture of monkeychild
Posted Hide Post
Whoa! It is getting hot in here! Are we sure this thread isn't about a recent flute audition?

As far as critics are concerned, I have to wonder why anyone in a major orchestra would even pay attention to what they say. I'm my own worst critic as it is. Add to that the critical ears my colleagues are constantly turning in my direction - to say nothing of the MD. And these are the people who's opinions really count when it comes to actually doing my job. It seems like a NY Times review is meant more for the audience than for the performer. I just don't know that if I were a tenured member of the Phil, I'd give it a second look (or a first look for that matter).
 
Posts: 84 | Registered: May 09, 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
DHP
Heavyweight Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by WestOfPCH:
quote:
Originally posted by DHP:
Any hack with a set of encyclopedias and spell
check can become a music reviewer.


Yeah, and any hack with a few hundred dollars, some lips, lungs, and some fingers can play the French Horn. It doesn't mean you are a good one, or that someone is going to pay to hear you play the horn.

**That was a laim response. Are you calling Phil Myers someone with a few hundred bucks, a few fingers and and a pair of lips? He knows more in
5 seconds than a reviewer will know if 5 lifetimes!

quote:
Originally posted by DHP:
Last time I checked there wasn't a degree in musical review


Geez, DHP, when was the last time you checked?? In 30 seconds, I found this at the USC Thornton School of Music's website:

"The PhD degree in historical musicology, offered by the Department of Musicology, prepares their recipients for careers in musical research, writing and university teaching. Through seminars and lectures students in musicology explore the breadth of music, including topics in music of the world, popular music, performance practices, criticism, jazz and film, theory and musical analysis."

**So thanks for pointing out that music reviewer can not only be failed musicians, but also failed musical researchers and failed university teachers...and nobody with a PhD is writing
concert reviews for a newspaper! Again, why
would you need a degree to review concerts?

quote:
Originally posted by DHP:
. . . or an audition tape for principal music reviewer


Allow me to be just as sarcastic: I'm sure the New Yorker never saw anything Alex Ross wrote before they hired him. Completely blind hire -- ok, maybe they looked at his resume. Oh, and that Pulitzer Prize that the much-reviled Martin Bernheimer won when he was the Music Critic of the Los Angeles Times?? -- Yeah, that's completely worthless too, because those Pulitzer guys aren't musicians nor are they Music Critics, so they must be completely ignorant hacks who have no clue what they are doing. Roll Eyes Go ahead, continue to be angry and ignorant. It's a free country.

**Was does this hack have to do with a guy who won a Pulitzer?

quote:
Originally posted by DHP:
Do you honestly think there is a musician in the Philharmonic who gives a **** what some failed Julliard hack thinks?

I doubt it!

Great, then by definition, he can write his opinion of the concerts he attends, and we don't need to try to fight the Philharmonic's fights -- they don't care, after all.

quote:

Originally posted by DHP:
If you aren't putting it on the line every night then keep your trap shut.

If you are "putting it on the line every night," you are getting paid money to perform in front of other people who have paid their good money for the opportunity/priviledge. You are doing something very public, and people have a right to think you are good or you suck. On any given night you choose to "put it on the line." And if you can't handle being told you screwed up in public when, in fact, you have screwed up in public, perhaps you are better suited for an anonymous job in a cubicle somewhere where no one will pay to watch you nor will any newspaper writer come to review your work. Or perhaps you should become a music teacher or do some other musical profession that does not involve newspaper writers or potential public embarrasment when you mess up or the glory when you nail your solos.

Or perhaps you should become a music critic and show them how it really should be done.

Of course, I'm not neccessarilly talking about you yourself, DHP . . . just whoever this hypothetical "you" is you mentioned who happened to be "putting it on the line everynight."


**The worthlessness of those reviewing concerts from row ZZ is more apparent to people who are on stage rather than those who are not....are the later or the former?

DHP
 
Posts: 56 | Registered: September 05, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Veteran Member
Posted Hide Post
DHP, I think we actually agree with each other on some things. Just because you call yourself a music critic doesn't mean you are a good one, and just because you call yourself a horn player doesn't mean you are a good one either. Put another way, having some tix to the NY Phil and a blog is a far cry from having a column in the NY Times, just as sitting 4th chair horn in a pick-up orchestra is a far cry from being the Principal of the NY Phil. See, we agree on that. (Just trying to find some common ground here).

Please don't put words in my mouth -- I never said a single ill word about Phil Myers or his playing.

But if the Principal Horn of the NY Phil flubs a solo, any "hack" with a CD of the music will know he flubbed; you don't need a Pulitzer to know the difference. And as you point out, the person sitting in that chair probably knows it better than anybody else when he nails it and when he blows it. We also agree on that, right?

If/when you have any high profile job, part of the deal is having people praise you in public when you do well and point out your mistakes in public when you mess up. High risk, high reward. Having your mistakes pointed out by anyone is never fun. Having them pointed out in public is worse. It's a hazard of any high profile job.

quote:
Originally posted by DHP:
**The worthlessness of those reviewing concerts from row ZZ is more apparent to people who are on stage rather than those who are not
....are the later or the former?


Monkeychild had a post stating that he is his own worst critic, and that the opinions of his colleagues are more important than someone from the outside looking in. I completely agree and put myself in the same boat.
 
Posts: 35 | Registered: November 16, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
DHP
Heavyweight Member
Posted Hide Post
The silly thing about the review is it was slamming someone who has had an amazing career doing what only a few have ever done. The piece was one that is stupidly hard for the horn player, almost unjustly so. To take shots at that is just laim. Its like Barry Bonds going 2-5 against Roger Clemens, striking out 3 times and hitting two home runs, and some lady in the first two rows of the stands commenting on how Barry looked really bad in those three strikeouts and
he often does not get a hit.

..but then again I think hitting a fast ball off Roger Clemens might be a tad easier than playing Haydn 48!

DHP
 
Posts: 56 | Registered: September 05, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Veteran Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DHP:
..but then again I think hitting a fast ball off Roger Clemens might be a tad easier than playing Haydn 48!

DHP


Good point! I think if you listed the number of living baseball players who have hit a Clemens fastball vs. the list of living horn players who have played a flawless Haydn 48, I'm guessing the baseball list would be longer.
 
Posts: 35 | Registered: November 16, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Platinum Member
Picture of MrAtoz
Posted Hide Post
When can we have the music critics themselves subject to criticism ?? Smile

Dutoit has a good solution for critics
on the 1990 DVD of Prokofiev's Classical Symphony...
 
Posts: 261 | Registered: April 11, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Heavyweight Member
Posted Hide Post
As Rudolf Bing, the long time General Director of the Metropolitan Opera once said, "If music critics were acrobats, they would have all been dead a long time ago".

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Feuermann,
 
Posts: 93 | Registered: June 17, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
OSF
Heavyweight Member
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As I keep saying when these discussions come up:

Critics: When they criticize, they're failed musicians who never played the game so have no right to criticize. When they praise, you quote them in your publicity.

And even most people on this group get all up in arms when newspapers talk about eliminating their critic position.

As for the NYPO review: I've had mixed feelings about Phil Meyers's playing for years, so why is it surprising that a critic who has heard the Philharmonic regularly would, too?
 
Posts: 50 | Location: Yerevan | Registered: May 28, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
OSF
Heavyweight Member
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It's probably bad form to follow up your own post, especially on a thread that's been dead for a couple weeks, but I thought it might be interesting to point out that the Philharmonic's webcast of this concert excludes the offending Haydn symphony:

http://nyphil.org/attend/broadcasts/index.cfm?page=broadcastsByMonth

This is the first time I've seen one of these broadcasts/webcasts exclude part of a program. The Heldenleben performance, in any event, is very good.
 
Posts: 50 | Location: Yerevan | Registered: May 28, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
OSF
Heavyweight Member
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Sorry, I should have read the schedule more carefully - the Haydn symphony is on the following week.
 
Posts: 50 | Location: Yerevan | Registered: May 28, 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
6pk
New Member
Picture of 6pk
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This discussion is very interesting and some very good points have been made. My only queation is, Why? Why does this need to be discussed so intensely? People have bad nights, people have good nights, everyone is human etc etc, Look at sports people, even Michael Johnson, who seemed invinceable as a 200m and 400m sprinter, even he had some bad championships. The whole point of live music and live entertainment is it's a one off moment that is never to be repeated. It seems the American music scene is full of obsession with accuracy and error counting. The great cultural capitals of the world where there are several Orchestras in one city, such as Berlin, Vienna, London, etc were made great from the basis of a sincere passion for music and art, and not from picking holes in individuals performances.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 6pk,
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: April 23, 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Veteran Member
Posted Hide Post
DHP......you keep writing this word "laim". Is this an alternative spelling for "lame" or a new word altogether?
 
Posts: 37 | Registered: July 12, 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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