Referencing Asian Musicians Shine in U.S. Orchestras, I quote Philadelphia Orchestra principal violist Jang Choong-jin, "In piano, for instance, Asian students tend to practice far more than Western kids. Another reason is that Asian musicians who mainly practiced solo are increasingly turning to chamber music and the orchestra." This leads to the perception that the key success of Asians in winning orchestra jobs is directly attributed to how much more they practice?

Perhaps I took this out of context but I found it an incredibly nearsighted statement to make? Am I overreacting here. Bueller? Anyone.. Bueller?

It is nearsighted. Although I do admit, I find some of my Asian students to be hard workers & fast learners, & some of it is because their parents make them practice more. Their parents are usually more likely to sign their kids up for lessons, & want to get their money's worth, sometimes more so than my other students. They're also more likely to attend the student's lessons & ask about progress. I have also noticed that students who have taken piano in the past often tend to be more successful in learning another instrument. But being Asian &/or taking piano lessons doesn't necessarily insure they're going to be the best players. I have also had plenty of successful "white" or other students who have done just fine without years of lessons or piano background.

I guess take it however you will, but I was thinking similar things when i read that article about the young Asian solo pianist (Conrad Tao) in recent months.

This question conjures up a SouthPark episode...

Jesus: My son…
Stan: Yes?
Jesus: I'm not touching that with a sixty foot pole.

when i first read this article, i thought something was strange since the quotes didn't sound like things cj would say. i figured they must be trying to stir up some controversy. in any case, i spoke w/ cj today about this article and he expressed how angry he was at being completely misquoted. he told me he never made any comparison between asians and anyone else. in fact, he never even said the word "western". what is upsetting is that most of the things he did say in the interview were not included while they chose to mangle his words to say something completely different.

this is not the first time he's been misrepresented by a korean newspaper. in the past, he's been quoted w/out even being asked a question. just wanted to clarify any misunderstandings. thanks.

It's also worth noting that translation is often poor for English-language online editions of foreign papers. CJ may well have been misquoted in the Korean version as well, but it's also possible that the English doesn't match the Korean...

I read the article in question, and don't see anything so terribly bad in it. In our efforts to be politically correct, we often overlook the obvious. The obvious is that Asian cultures still value discipline, hard work, loyalty to the family unit, etc. more than we do.

One of the recurring patterns of history is that of a hard working people who achieve much, and then lapse into decadence and self-indulgence. Sadly, our society seems to be in danger of moving down this path. Another pattern is that of the minority group that has suffered discrimination, and must work harder than mainstream members of society in order to achieve a measure of acceptance. The Jewish people have long been in this position, and music provided a stepping stone out of the ghetto, as the arts were in the forefront of providing opportunity based on competence alone, in contrast with the restrictions imposed by more conservative bastions of society. Think of the huge number of Jewish musicians in 20th century orchestras, all out of proportion to their relative numbers in the population as a whole. I see parallels with the surge of Asian musicians that has happened in the last 25 years.

I have had many Asian students, and almost without exception they were harder working, more serious, more disciplined, and had more watchful parents than their American counterparts. While many American teenagers were teeny-bopping at the mall, smoking dope, and fantasizing about boys named Scott and Darian, their Asian rivals were at the grindstone doing their homework and practicing the violin under the constant, all-seeing eyes of the Dragon Lady. As a Korean friend of mine puts it, "A Jewish mother is a Sunday afternoon tea party compared to a Korean mother". (And my quoting this is intended as a compliment, not a slur.) Such a childhood might seem rather bleak to an American teenager, but it does tend to produce results later in life.

Before you jump all over me, yes, there are exceptions. Somewhere out there I'm sure there must be lazy, non-achieving, neglected Asian students .......... only I haven't seen very many, and I've personally crossed paths with hundreds of such American kids. This is not to say that there aren't millions of well disciplined, high achieving young WASPs, but I maintain that the tightness and discipline of the Asian family unit, their ancient tradition of honoring scholastic and intellectual achievement (as opposed to cheerleading and football), plus the factors mentioned in the second paragraph above, account for their phenomenal success story in this country in all fields, not just music.

And finally, to another different, emerging minority, perhaps the hardest-working of all in this country, I just want to say: Muchas Gracias!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Feuermann,

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Originally posted by Feuermann:
I read the article in question, and don't see anything so terribly bad in it.

Except that it was not what was said by those interviewed. That should tell you something else about Asian culture, and I AM Asian. It's called being dishonorable.

A better thing for that newspaper to do is to honor the organization of the symphony orchestra and symphonic music and show them respect by deferring to some of its growing qualities like inclusion and possibility, and discuss how instrumental/symphonic music has provided and can provide a bridge from culture to culture and helps children and people from all cultures to grow in a positive way. Painting a genuine, positive picture around something like that is a way of honoring it, so others see its worth. That newspaper not only insulted those players, it spat on and treated the symphonic genre like a competition arena, which if a group is about music, that is exactly what it is trying not to be.

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I have had many Asian students, and almost without exception they were harder working, more serious, more disciplined, and had more watchful parents than their American counterparts. While many American teenagers were teeny-bopping at the mall, smoking dope, and fantasizing about boys named Scott and Darian, their Asian rivals were at the grindstone doing their homework and practicing the violin under the constant, all-seeing eyes of the Dragon Lady. As a Korean friend of mine says, "A Jewish mother is a Sunday afternoon tea party compared to a Korean mother". (And my quoting this is intended as a compliment, not a putdown.) Such a childhood might seem rather bleak to American teenagers, but it does tend to produce results later in life.

And of the many, many Asian people born here? We are not American now? Who are you and why are you trying to put us on pedestals just for being responsible human beings? It’s one thing if an Asian-based newspaper does it about Asian people in a native Asian language, but what are you doing? What are you, an anthropologist?

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Before you jump all over me, yes, there are exceptions. Somewhere out there I'm sure there must be lazy, non-achieving, neglected Asian students .......... only I haven't seen very many, and I've personally crossed paths with hundreds of such American kids. This is not to say that there aren't millions of well disciplined, high achieving WASP kids, but I maintain that the tightness and discipline of the Asian family unit, their ancient tradition of honoring scholastic and intellectual achievement (as opposed to cheerleading and football), plus the factors mentioned in the second paragraph above, account for their phenomenal success story in this country in all fields, not just music.

There are things that can be discussed about Asian upbringing, but I don't think this is the place to do it (AT ALL). Regardless of culture, children are going to do better when the parents are at home raising them. Sticking them in day care all day all week while you work 12 hours a day and sit on the phone and computer and in front of the TV for most of the rest of time could possibly explain a lot as to reasons for decline in quality behavior in children. There's no mystery there, if kids aren't watched constantly, they will run wild because they are kids. Duh! I will say this, though: in our cultures (Asian is not a monoculture), children tend to be raised by family, NOT by day care or nannies or other strangers, and the people they are around the most are people who know them from day one. Grandpa and grandma raise children too, they don't get put in homes and treated like interferences by the very people who they put on this earth and raised. If it happens, it is very rare and those people who do it are sick. Like you can only live your life once you get those who gave it to you out of the way----sick attitude. If there is any explanation as to why kids do well, it is because they are raised and cared for by those who care for them most. And kids turn around and care for those who cared for them. This is shocking to you? A "success story?" This is common sense. And this is any culture, any people. Why glorify us just for doing what anybody should do when they have kids (raise them yourself)? Why you want to come up here and pin medals on people for being true to where they come from and caring about each other’s lives---is that part of where you come from, to patronize people like that?

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And finally, to another different, emerging minority, perhaps the hardest-working of all in this country, I just want to say: Muchas Gracias!

For what? For cleaning your houses, rolling your burritos at Chipotle, planting your gardens, raising your children, and picking up your garbage from behind your house? Isn't this supposed to be about music and symphonies? If you want to raise a salute to the Mexicans, why don't you talk about how few there are in symphonies or playing musical instruments but how many families WANT their kids to?

What are you on, the holier-than-thou drug of the century? Going around to the different "minorities" and singing praises? It's no wonder people think that the symphony is highbrow and snotty---this little supercilious pat on the back you felt you needed to make is exactly why. Man, you and that pompous attitude make me want to puke! Put a sock in it!

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Originally posted by basalin69:

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And finally, to another different, emerging minority, perhaps the hardest-working of all in this country, I just want to say: Muchas Gracias!

For what? For cleaning your houses, rolling your burritos at Chipotle, planting your gardens, raising your children, and picking up your garbage from behind your house? Isn't this supposed to be about music and symphonies? If you want to raise a salute to the Mexicans, why don't you talk about how few there are in symphonies or playing musical instruments but how many families WANT their kids to?

Yes, that last sentence was in bad taste; I admit it, and apologize. It was an ill conceived attempt to inject a bit of humor into a very serious subject, and it obviously fell flat.

I stand behind the rest of what I wrote.

And speaking of offensive - your tirade against day care will surely insult the millions of hard working people who have no choice, such as single mothers and families that need a dual income just to survive. There have been many studies done on the long term effects of day vs. home care, and the jury is still out.

actually, most of the people who role my burritos at Chipotle are white

in all seriousness, it all boils down to cultural differences. if it hadn't been an article about Asians, it would've been about those of Middle Eastern descent (I have had a # of those as star students as well). I also remember reading an interesting article posted on here about blacks in symphony orchestras. I don't have the link, but it was listed more like a descriptive survey of certain players, & had just briefly explained their individual background, what orchestras they've played with, how they got into music, etc.

Back to cultural differences, yes a lot of people leave their kids in daycare while they work all day, but they just about have to to keep up their college loans, pay bills, live in a nice neighborhood, & now in this day in age of ever raising gas prices, simply drive to work . I have noticed some (not all) of my successful Asian students have an ideal situation where the Dad usually works & the mom does stay at home, & they live in very nice neighborhoods. Their families also seem to be more in the picture (if those members live here in the states), esp. if I drive to their house, whereas many people's families live in other states. Unfortunately, most people don't have the luxury of a single family income, no matter how educated they are. i don't know very many single or married couples (w/ or w/out kids) that can afford their luxuries w/ only 1 income.

I don't have an answer for the whole cultural thing, I'm just stating my own observations. And part of that is, from what I've noticed w/ teaching many of them, there is something to be said for their work ethic.