OK I don't know any of the people involved in this discussion and I don't condone people in a position of power taking advantage of younger people but I bet you could take any institute of highter education and find a similar example. As long as the girls are over the age of consent and they don't object to the advances (ie. you could class it as rape, assault etc) then there is very little the aurthorities can do. It's not nice but it isn't limited to the musical world and there are many silly young girls out there who do think they can sleep their way to the top. Also orchestras seem to be a literal hotbed of affairs, marital breakups and sexual incontinence. Cleveland orchestra doesn't sound so unique in this issue.

I want to remain annonymous because I'm too embarrassed to admit to reading the myauditions forums!!!

We strive to take a hands off approach to our forums but all we ask is that you folks adhere to our forum policies that have been in effect now for nearly four years.

These forums give you a voice to be heard, whether you do so anonymously or disclose your real name, that is up to you. If you disclose as many do, then you have greater latitude to post as long as you adhere to our policies. Any deviation will have our moderator politely reminding folks of our policies.

quote:

Originally posted by g_sgarabotto:
so why don't you require all MyAudition users for their real identity, job position and employer? While you're at it, you should require headshots, DOB, SSN and mother's maiden names too.

Don't forget to include the DNA sample. That may be of use as well.

Seriously, we have proposed a private secure forum for professionals much like the very public Orchestra-L to allow members to voice their opinions to each other. The one caveat to this is we would require that real names, job title and employer be disclosed on the post just like on Orchestra-L.

Just to let all of you know, it would be quite easy for anyone to find out who a poster is. Computer "private investigators" can be easily found if you know where to look. If you think you're anonymous, you're wrong. Yea, to most people it would be impossible to find out but every post you make leaves an imprint and a good techie with knowledge of servers and covert intrusion can quite easily figure out who you are and where you're posting from.

In regards to the legal issues raised here what, if any, are the legal precedences? Does anyone know of a case in which a forum was sued for slander due to a member's posting? At what point must a member disclose their name? Just wondering since this all seems like relatively new territory .....

quote:

Originally posted by smackemup:
In regards to the legal issues raised here what, if any, are the legal precedences? Does anyone know of a case in which a forum was sued for slander due to a member's posting? At what point must a member disclose their name? Just wondering since this all seems like relatively new territory .....

There was actually a lawsuit last year regarding this. Some anonymous individuals posted something "slanderous" on a internet message board, and the person they were talking about sued the owner of the forum. The end of the story is that the suit was dismissed, with prejudice, from Federal Court. While the myauditions staff might be concerned about lawsuits, the fear isn't grounded in reality.

Yes, it would be like suing a bar owner for words his patrons said about X person(s) while at his establishment.

Well, IMHO it would ruin this site and make it irrelevant if slander was allowed or condoned. Lets face it, there is a fine line between a legitimate audition gripe and sour grapes. Calling players "pigs" would really cheapen this site, its innacurate, biased and downright mean-spirited. Laws are one thing, common sense is another.

quote:

There was actually a lawsuit last year regarding this. Some anonymous individuals posted something "slanderous" on a internet message board, and the person they were talking about sued the owner of the forum. The end of the story is that the suit was dismissed, with prejudice, from Federal Court. While the myauditions staff might be concerned about lawsuits, the fear isn't grounded in reality.

Whether grounded in reality or not, any party can file a frivolous lawsuit against another party. The defendant would still be responsible for hiring an attorney and paying their own legal fees to get the suit dismissed. Then, when the lawsuit is eventually dismissed, the defendant would have to sue plaintiff for their legal fees incurring additional attorney fees, with only a slim chance of collecting. The whole process could take up to a year or more before it is finally resolved. The only ones who win are the attorneys.

My team has worked long and hard to develop MyAuditions into what it is today and if being overly cautious upsets some, then they are welcomed to leave and join other related Web sites who care little what anyone says on their services.

I simply will not tolerate violations of our policies. Allowing them otherwise, could quite possibly risk all we have worked for.

I'm not saying you should violate your policies, I'm just saying that fear of a lawsuit shouldn't be the reason for them (and you wouldn't need to a seperate suit to collect legal fees). It's perfectly acceptable to say that you just don't want people being nasty on these boards because it goes against what you want this site to be. Nothing wrong with that, I think it's nice.

I was about to say I agree with MyAuditions on this one; but then I realized that it doesn't matter, because we have all agreed to abide by the rules they have laid down. (Click "Terms & Conditions" at the bottom of this page.)

As for being afraid of a lawsuit: even a frivolous, unjustifiable, meritless lawsuit that is dismissed with prejudice is a NIGHTMARE for the person/organization being sued.

Example:
A friend of mine was sued several years ago, over a traffic accident that was not his fault. His insurance company handled it and I forget if he won, or it got thrown out; but it took a YEAR to get to court and involved several trips to the city where the accident took place and several stress-filled long-distance phone conversations with lawyers. He lost weight, lost sleep, and gained gray hair. The fact that he "won" made almost no difference by the time it was over, except for the fact that it was OVER. (Oh, and even though it didn't "cost" him anything, he still had to pay his insurance company their $1,000 deductible, which was almost 10% of his yearly salary at the time.)

Unless you are the type of person who enjoys litigation, I think it's entirely reasonable to be afraid of a frivolous lawsuit.

And I will add my two pennies to this as well: A close friend of mine recently broke up with a girl. The ex-girlfriend couldn't handle it. She showed up at his door the next day with the police claiming that he hit her, which he did not, and had the injuries to prove it. Clearly they were self inflicted but he wound up spending the night in jail and having yours truly bail him out the next day.

That day, he called her to ask why she did it and she said she was just getting back at him and had no intention of showing up in court.

Well, my friend went to court with his attorney and because the ex did not show, they postponed the hearing. The courts tried three times to get her in to testify and each time she refused toe appear. But, he had to go back to court each time with attorney in tow.

Finally, the case was dismissed after 3 months and $3,000 in attorney's fees. Now, he has to pay the attorney more money to have the rap expunged from his record. Oh, and don't forget the fees he had to pay to the bail bondsman who was literally out of a Quentin Tarantino film.

Guess what happened to the ex-girlfriend? Zilch, nada, nothing. No arrest for lying and no slap on the risk by the courts. She walked satisfied that she got the final word.

So, the next time you feel like ***** slapping a friend or doing something that might have the slightest chance of winding you up in court, think twice. For if you do, it will take you months and a lot of money in attorney's fees to set it right again. It does NOT happen in a few days.

So, can we all just PLEASE get past this and get back to our regularly scheduled discussion on the performing arts, all things great and small?

I agree with you, Cygnus. Common sense and courtesy are always the way to go. No matter what happens I feel good about myself (at least) when I have been courteous. I was just curious about where the line is drawn when an anonymous post causes a person hardship and to what extent a website is responsible. I never got to see the original post that got this going (by garabatto). Nor do I have any knowledge either first or second hand about anything going on in Cleveland. As we become more and more a computer world these issues won't get any easier. I appreciate My Auditions' willingness to let its members post anonymously, but I agree that that doesn't give people the right to post professionally harmful or hurtful messages.

I agree, though I don't understand all the horror stories about frivolous lawsuits (by definition, they're frivolous, if someone is going to sue myauditions for no reason, nothing is going to stop them). Myauditions has a policy against personal attacks, I think that's nice.

I think it's nice too.

quote:

Originally posted by BBodden:
I think it's nice too.

I think I feel a group hug a-brewing...

...followed by a lawsuit when someone claims to have been groped

I think it's interesting that all this negative publicity is coming up just before a Cleveland orchestra associate concertmaster audition. Apparently they're limiting the pool of invitees, and the taped audition prelim list reads as follows: "Tape Repetoire for First Associate Concertmaster: WINTER 2007
I. Solo: Exposition of a major concerto
II. Orchestral Exerpts, including solo passages: Mozart Symphony no. 39, 4th mvt exposition; Schumann Symphony no. 2, 2nd mvt exposition
III. Concertmaster Solos: Bach St. Matthew Passion: Erbarme dich; Strauss Ein Heldenleben"

Okay, a few problems with this that makes it seem like nobody really cares about this list. There are definately no solo passages in Mozart 39 or Schumann 2. And the Bach & Strauss solos are VERY long. No reply from email to personnel mgr for exerpt specification. And the tape's due March 5th... Is April 16, 2007 considered "Winter 2007"? For such an important position in a major orchestra, this list is surprisingly unspecific and erroneous. Yet one more reason not to bother with the effort, time or expense making the tape.

quote:

Originally posted by doodles:
Yet one more reason not to bother with the effort, time or expense making the tape.

That may be, but the tape stuff seems really clear to me. They want:

1. Exposition of a Concerto
2. Exposition of Mozart 39 #4
3. Exposition of Schumann Scherzo
4. One mvmt ( Ebarme Dich) of Bach, a very popular audition mvmt
5. The main solo in Ein Heldenleben

About 20 minutes tops.

All standard stuff. It shouldnt matter if Mozart #39 is not a solo, this is a very standard audition list. I have been asked weirdo stuff like Neilsen Symphonies.

I have to say it looks pretty standard to me too.