I think it's wonderful that the Dayton Philharmonic is able to bring in such superstars as Renee Fleming, Emanuel Ax, and Nadja Salerno-Sonnenberg in for concerts, but I am little troubled by something. These artists require huge fees for appearances and, obviously, the Dayton Phil. is able to afford it. Why then, is this orchestra refusing to pay salaries to their musicians and continue to be "per service"? Does anyone else find anything wrong with this picture?

I'd be very curious to know conductor Neal Gittleman's earnings.

I've seen orchestras in New Hampshire run their budgets into the ground by repeatedly hiring expensive soloists.

I suspect it's desperation. They're hoping some superstar will bring in a crowd, and that crowd will come back the next week, when maybe they won't have a superstar.

I also suspect it doesn't work. People won't associate the great performance of a superstar with the possible great performances of your ensemble.

The dilemma of soloist fees and ticket sales is one faced by nearly every orchestra these days. I know one orchestra marketer who claims, somewhat convincingly, that Yo-Yo Ma and Itzhak Perlman are the only big-fee soloists out there today who can actually sell enough tickets (at significantly marked-up prices, of course) to recoup the money the orchestra pays them to appear. I don't know if that's true, but it is certainly the case that big names can be a gamble in an age when no classical musician could really be said to be on the radar screen of the general public. My own orchestra hired the eminent Wagner soprano Jane Eaglen for a week of concerts last fall - she sang a stunning program, but sales were abysmal, for reasons we still haven't figured out.

The most recent marketing surveys I've seen from our people indicate that the vast majority of our audience decides whether to buy a ticket based on what we're playing, rather than on who's playing it. I don't know if this holds true in other cities as well, but if so, it certainly should give orchestras pause when considering soloists...

Sam Bergman
violist, Minnesota Orchestra
news editor, ArtsJournal.com
Minneapolis, MN

Bravo, Sam! Last night I played a concert with an incredible regional orchestra, Rogue Valley Symphony--we did the Ellington 'New World A-Comin' and Anderson's 'Concerto in C'. I was sitting around my hotel this morning and hearing people talk about the Ashland Shakespeare Festival whilst others (not knowing I was sitting around or who I was) chatting up a storm about the concert: 'We heard this guy with these great concertos--never heard them--this guy's been playing all over the place...." I think the goals of the 21st century, atleast to my ears flitting about the country, is a return to the 'what's on the program tonight' rather than, 'hey ma look...spurstar 'A' is in town--gonna sell lotsa tickets'--er, not happening all the time these days. Too many diversions in media and technology--the old adage 'if it's a big name, it's going to sell-out' doesn't work like it did in the 20th century. However, it was truly refreshing to see young people in the audience--not only here in Southern Oregon (where I admit, the orchestra played the Ellington as well as the Orchestre de la Suisse Romande did with me in 2003), but in other cities throughout the US. Old fashioned family values, opening the young minds to new repertoire for them and concert-going, is refreshing to see. Admittedly, my fees are certainly not low, but they're not high enough to prohibit me from embracing communities that can't afford super-high fees. When I was young, I heard Rubenstein in a small city--he treated every stage like Carnegie Hall--I'll never forget that. And HE was a superstar.I hope the cities like you mentioned will remember to embrace the American talent that is growing in numbers--there's some beautiful talent out there--and I am sure they are affordable and will give their audiences a truly richly rewarding experience.

Congratulations Jeffrey and break-a-leg again tonight and tomorrow!

Just curious: what was your take on the Holst slide show idea, there?

Y'know, Joseph Horowitz's newest book, "Classical Music in America," gets very deeply into the discussion of a love for music vs. a love for performers, and actually posits the theory that Americans never really appreciated music the way Europeans did when classical forms began to cross the pond in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Horowitz blames the "superstar culture," especially as it surrounded Arturo Toscanini, for cheapening the art and making it wholly disposable once something newer came along.

I don't necessarily agree with all of Horowitz's assertions, but the book (what I've read of it so far) is terrific, and everyone in this business ought to be reading it.

quote:

Originally posted by Sam Bergman:
The most recent marketing surveys I've seen from our people indicate that the vast majority of our audience decides whether to buy a ticket based on what we're playing, rather than on who's playing it. I don't know if this holds true in other cities as well, but if so, it certainly should give orchestras pause when considering soloists...

That's the philosophy behind Naxos; that people buy based on repetroire.

As for Dayton, that's a vry, very good observation. Now, go to their form 990's and see what their adminsitrators earn. i published a piece a year ago which compares the base salary for musicians against that of the music director executive director and the executive director

If you want to have even more fun compare the base salary of the musicians in Dayton to the base salary of other musicians in comparable budget orchestras (anyone in the $4mm range).

Drew

You'll problably find a number of people who will gie you a number of opinions about the situation in Dayton, but the best people to ask "why" are the players. If you know any, try bending their ear.

A number of years ago I spoke with the executive director of a regional "arts council" about giving a concert for them. The discussion came to an abrupt halt when she mentioned that they had no budget to give me a fee. She said something inane about expecting their performers to be truly dedicated to their art, and willing to do it for the love of art. I pointed out that I couldn't pay my bills if I played for free. I also asked her if she was a volunteer. She said that she was salaried. Apparantly her organization believed that the administrators were more important than the artists. I wonder what arts administrators think they would be doing if there were no artists.

I know the audience loved the concert--and the Holst sounded like a recording--so clean, everyone was in great shape! Thanks for the good wishes for tonite and tomorrow--Southern Oregon is a wonderful area--beautiful nature, and people come to concerts to hear music--I'm a favorite here, but that's not their focus for coming.

Drew - the links you provided are scary and sad. I was recently speaking with a principal musician in a major symphony orchestra and, rather jokingly, he said "We're just the hired help."
Again, the artists the Dayton Phil. are bringing in this coming season are some of my favorites, are spectacular, and deserve their fees. However when you become aware that the majority of musicians in the orchestra make only $110.00 per service a red flag goes up.
The 80 or so musicians in the orchestra are the most important commodity. It doesn't look as though the administration feels that way.

I think it's safe to say it goes both ways, you can't have orchestras without musicians but tickets wouldn't get sold without people in the administration.

I think the trouble begins when you start to see discrepancies in pay scale. In the end, the players at Dayton do have measures to enact any dissatisfaction with their pay scale. If they are happy with the way things are then they'll stay the same, if not, they'll do something about it.

That's certainly not to say there aren't managers out there who take advantage of their situation for their own benefit over the benefit of the organization, there's good and bad pretty much everywhere you look.

But I'm glad some people have recently enjoyed he articles, I hope it inspires you to learn more about individual situations and the business behind the industry in general.

Drew

A very interesting discussion indeed. I can only add that the story with the Florida West Coast Symphony ending its relationship with Perleman only adds weight to this discussion. It was just too costly to carried. What was surprising was the management's position that Perleman's presence didn't benefit their youth symphony.

I used to play in Dayton before coming to Buffalo. That practice has been going on a long time. Management there, in my eyes, has had the opportunity for many years to make a committment to the musicians, by at least offering the core there a full-time salary with benefits.

I think at least now, since I left the orchestra (in 2000) they do get some type of health insurance. After having moved into a new hall a couple of years ago, it seemed that the time was right to consider the musicians.

The interesting thing, was that when I moved from 2nd horn in Dayton to 2nd horn in Buffalo, in the end, I didn't really add that many more services to my yearly schedule. I just went up quite a bit in salary and benefits.

Overall, Dayton was still a great place for me to get started in my professional career.

I am quoting from an article I read today on the Harrisburg Symphony hiring lesser known soloists:

quote:

The HSO may be "several steps closer" to its ideal financial situation but Malina will not be seeking any of the solo artists who represent the 21st century's household names in classical music.

"They're not necessarily better, and they cost five to 10 times as much," Malina explains. "I'd rather present someone less famous but equally gifted. The mistake is to equate fame with artistry."

Following that rationale, Malina invited four lesser known performers to fill the solo slots in four concertos for the next season.

He paired pianist Stewart Goodyear with Gershwin's Concerto in F, pianist Markus Groh with Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1, violinist Karen Gomyo with the Sibelius Violin Concerto, and pianist Fabio Bidini with Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No. 2.

Also, HSO principal trumpet player Phil Snedecor got his wish to perform the Trumpet Concerto by Alexander Arutunian.

I particularly like the quote, "The mistake is to equate fame with artistry." Lang Lang, I believe fits this quote very well, as does Andrea Boccelli.

I would not in a million years put Lang Lang and Andrea Bocelli in the same category. Bocelli made a conscious decision to focus his career on "crossover" music and record sales. Lang Lang is an amazingly talented classical pianist with an undeniably unique sound and an original take on many old warhorses. Whether you like him or not (and I understand why some don't,) you cannot possibly hear Lang Lang play in person and come away thinking that his reputation is all hype.

Sam Bergman
violist, Minnesota Orchestra
news editor, ArtsJournal.com
Minneapolis, MN

Some interesting comments here. I am sure someone will tell me if Managers aren't welcome to join the discussion.

Drew and I have argued (in a reasonably friendly way) about the validity of using minimum scale as an appropriate comparison point. The average salary for a musician in our orchestra in now about $19,000, with almost a quarter of the orchestra making over $25,000. And we have started offering the beginnings of decent benefits package. Do I wish it were more? Yes. Will it continue to grow over the next several years? Yes. Do we face financial challenges like everyone else in the business? Yes, but we don't think the solution is cutting back on what we are paying our musicians.

We don't have a core in Dayton because a majority of our musicians have been opposed to moving to a core. Neal and I actively pushed for a move to a core when we first got to Dayton, and the board could have been talked into it, but the substantial majority of feedback from the orchestra was very much against it. To the extent there were musicians who supported it, they kept their opinions to themselves. Over time that has changed, and we have gradually evolved into something that looks a lot like a core in some ways, but still leaves room for a sliding scale of commitment level from the musicians to the orchestra and vice versa.

As for the original question. . . My experience is that Yo-Yo Ma and Itzhak Perlman are the two stars that do seem to reliably generate enough extra ticket income to cover their substantial fees. We are presenting Renee Fleming with the orchestra this upcoming season, and it is a riskier preposition, but we do have a good chunk of her fee covered by a gift from a local foundation that is only interested in "big" high visibility "extra" events.

Artist like Nadja SS, Sarah Chang, Midori, Gil Shaham, Emanuel Ax, etc. do generate somewhat higher ticket sales (regardless of repertoire), but not enough to fully cover their fees. So, when we look for areas where it would be possible to cut expenses and improve the bottom line, classical guest artists fees are certainly a candidate. But, to some extent that is hard to measure exactly bringing in artists of this level (a) helps us sell subscriptions, (b) helps us bring in new people for the first time (in many cases, people who usually go to Cincinnati), and (c) provides a benefit to the community exceeds the pure value of increased ticket sales.

On the other hand, there are plenty of artist out there who want $15,000 for an engagement and neither play any better than nor sell any more tickets someone who will come for $5000.

Yikes! I have to admit--I am one of Malina's pianists that he always says fits his commentary regarding his notion that a superstar name that comes with a high price tag is not always the best way to sell tickets. Thanks to Stuart Malina, I have played frequently with him back in his Greensboro days as well as a few times already in Harrisburg. He is a leader for the community, in that he has provided them with his mindset and it simply works. He doesn't have to worry as much that he's putting the orchestra over its head with expensive artist fees---not necessary for that orchestra (and most I am learning). Thanks to concerts like those with Malina, I have been able to climb the ladder and accept bigger engagements and higher fees along with keeping close in touch with the orchestras that have given me my chance. Bravo Stuart Malina and all your colleagues that follow in this way of engaging artists. One thing is for sure, as large as the engagements get during my career, I will always remember that Artur Rubenstein played everywhere, not just the big dates.

Curt,

I think that I can speak for most on these forums when I say that all posters are welcomed, be them musician or management. I always thought these forums should have more management folks participating, just to provide more divergent points of view.

I guess that is why myauditions calls it the "Open Forum."

Thank you, musician. I will try to contribute where I can.

I speak for all "Managers" when I say you're welcome!