I think the finals were today. Any word on a winner?

I was just wondering that myself. There were five days scheduled for prelims. There must have been a ton of flutist at the audition.

I'm curious not only about the winner, but also if anyone managed to advance from the prelims. I know a lot of people only got through 1 or 2 excerpts. Congrats to anyone who advanced!

I'm betting that they didn't hire anyone at this audition.

Sharon Sparrow, currently second flute with the DSO won the audition. No one was advanced from the prelims. Congrats to Sharon!

Will the 2nd spot be open now?

I figured Sharon would win it. I wonder if anyone was offered second or if that will be the next audition.

At the risk of starting another of those "what the heck's going on here" threads (though I guess I'm trying to do precisely that)...

A first-division American orchestra (to use a soccer analogy, so we can avoid the whole "Big 5 or 10" thing) holds a principal flute audition - AFAIK the biggest flute job opening of the year - conducts five days of prelims that likely attracts everyone who is anyone in the North American flute world without a better job (which isn't very many people), advances NOBODY from the prelims, and gives the job to their incumbent 2nd flute player. Something seems very amiss here. I'm sure the "winner" is a terrific player and eminently qualified for the job, but as always, that's beside the point. Surely many of the people in five days of prelims were well qualified or could have made a good fit for the group. Sure looks to me like the fix was in. I'd like to see someone who attended an audition like this sue the orchestra for fraud; without even bothering to hold a final round, circumstantial evidence seems pretty strong that they never intended to consider anyone else.

Were there any invites to a final round at least? I'm more surprised that NO one was advanced from prelims, that just doesn't seem right. I understand not passing many on (I know in some cases where some big groups have only passed on 2-3), but passing no one is just strange. I don't know how many candidates there were, but they REALLY should've trimmed this down to 1 or 2 days.

OSF- were you at this audition?

At least this orchestra opened their doors to anyone off the street who wanted to audition..which is more than most orchestra do!....hence, they don't have enough time to let people get it right in the next excerpt, etc. I got cut like everyone else, but I can say with all certainty that I didn't bring it, to the standards that they were looking for.

And there weren't that many people at the audition, even if it was over 5 days.. I think around 55 in the prelims.

Having heard Sharon Sparrow, I can say there are few flute players out there who can hold a candle to her playing, and it's pretty rude of you to make second hand assumptions about a fair audition for one of the finest US orchestras, that happens to have VERY high standards... and I'll say it, higher than most.
That section has incredibly low turnover, so are you saying that a hyper-talented flutist (who already won a grueling audition awhile back with NO previous connection) can't become an even more seasoned player over a course of years of playing with said orchestra?

"eminently Qualified"? Please.... not many can hold a candle to anyone in that section.

I have to agree with whatever. The DSO section is phenomenal, and Sharon is more than qualified. Lest anyone forget, she has already held a full time principal job with Fort Wayne.

I will say, however, I do find it odd that the audition process lasted so long with only 55 in the prelims. 5 days seems a bit excessive. And I'm sure there were others invited to the finals.

I don't know if anyone in the DSO reads these boards, but it would be nice to know if the 2nd flute spot is up for grabs now. And if it is, when the projected audition date is.

quote:

Originally posted by OSF:
. . . I'm sure the "winner" is a terrific player and eminently qualified for the job, but as always, that's beside the point.

Actually, I don't think it is beside the point. If she was eminently qualified and by the orchestra's standards no one else was more qualified, they found the right person for the job. Isn't this EXACTLY the point of an audition?

quote:

Originally posted by OSF:
Surely many of the people in five days of prelims were well qualified or could have made a good fit for the group. Sure looks to me like the fix was in. I'd like to see someone who attended an audition like this sue the orchestra for fraud; without even bothering to hold a final round, circumstantial evidence seems pretty strong that they never intended to consider anyone else.

By your reasoning, OSF, the only way this could have ended without the alleged "fix" would be to have Ms. Sparrow not get the job. Is that really what you mean? I hope not.

Let's project this forward to the next big flute audition (the one for the LA Phil Prinicpal Flute chair I brought up in an earlier thread): if either Cathy Karoly or Sarah Jackson get promoted, will that mean the LA Phil fixed that one too? Or if they don't get the job, does that mean the committee and/or MD were biased against them? It makes no sense either way. (And FWIW: Ms. Karoly got some great reviews for her work sitting 1st chair for Dudamel this past weekend in Prélude à l’après-midi d’un faune and Daphnis and Chloé).

It's nice to see whatever.'s post. Helps to put things in better perspective.

quote:

I will say, however, I do find it odd that the audition process lasted so long with only 55 in the prelims. 5 days seems a bit excessive.

Possibly they didn't have all day available each day. (Rehearsal schedules & whatnot)

Sharon is a terrific player & always has been since I first heard her at a summer festival in 1986; and (to quote Forrest Gump) that's all I have to say about that.

Whatever:

I wasn't there, and could be completely wrong. I respect the fact that you were there and apparently found the process fair. But every time one of these auditions auditions gets discussed, someone usually tries to dismiss those of us who raise questions about the process by suggesting we're being disrespectful of the winner, or that the result is justified because the winner is a great player. I'm sure Sharon Sparrow is great and never suggested otherwise; I never knew "eminently qualified" to be a rude or disrespectful expression.

My issue is about the process, not the person. In the super-competitive orchestra audition business, I find it very odd that an orchestra of Detroit's stature would fail to find even a single person in a large group of candidates (I would have expected more than 55) impressive enough to advance to a second round; you may not feel you brought your "A" game but basic probably suggests that at least one of the other 54 candidates did.

Ok, for the first time in a long time, I am not pissed off about this audition. For those who don't know, there were many days of prelims and pretty much anyone who advanced would have to book a separate flight back on extremely short notice -this would have been very expensive for most people. (Either that or spend half a week in a Detroit hotel, but most people had to get back to work anyway.)

I was at this audition and actually got to play all the excerpts on the (lengthy!) list. I was then asked to play many of the excerpts again. I was in there for a good half hour. I'm sure there are others that played longer than I did. I realize that many people got cut-off early, I have certainly had that happen to me at other auditions, and getting cut off is no fun. However, I got the feeling that the committee considered the first few excerpts to be the "prelim" round and if they liked the candidate enough, they would continue through the list -sort of combining the prelims with the semi-finals.

In a way I felt this was a good way of conducting an audition that was going to require people to go through great expense to return for the final day of auditions. Perhaps the reason why only 55 people (I don't actually know if that is accurate) were heard over the 5 days is because they were allowing so much extra time to extend time slots to allow for people to play longer if they wanted.

quote:

Originally posted by OSF:

Surely many of the people in five days of prelims were well qualified or could have made a good fit for the group.

It's easy to think this way, and perhaps it's true that there were some in the mix who could fit in with the group. But having sat on audition committees I know first hand that often there just is no one who rises to the standard. Sometimes even known good players don't rise to the standard. That's just the way auditions are. And keep those knives sharpened for the L.A. Philharmonic our Principal flute auditions are coming up!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: David Garrett,

The question of who has the advantage - the player already in the orchestra, or the outsider - has been debated for as long as I can remember. Some musicians believe the player already in the orchestra has the advantage: he will have friends on the committee who will be sympathetic and try to tilt the vote in his favor if it is at all close, or (as some seem to be implying in this case) arrange that other qualified candidates be kept out of the finals by setting and enforcing a super-high standard for the early rounds.

Others believe that the outsider has the advantage, hitting town like a white knight and dazzling the committee and MD with a wonderful audition, at a time when his faults on the job (and everyone has some) are not yet known. And of course the committee and MD will be only too aware of the local player's faults.

The woodwind and brass world is still somewhat of a mystery to me, and I'm not sure which of the above effects is stronger in their case, but for the strings I definitely believe the outsider has the advantage. One of the hardest things is to work your way up in a string section to the principal position in the same orchestra. If your audition and an outsider's are on the same level, the MD usually wants the outsider; then he's got two fine players instead of one - they all want strength in the field, too. I have seen the occasional exception, but I've seen more cases where the player has to orchestra-hop and get his principal position in a different orchestra. He is then the White Knight, instead of Old Hat.

It's hard to comment on this specific audition without knowing if there were other finalists (obviously invited, as no one advanced) and if the finals were conducted behind a screen. Does anyone know?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Feuermann,

All rounds were completely screened...

A few more comments to add.....

I wasn't at this audition but just spoke with a good friend who was. She said it was the most well run and friendly audition she's taken. Apparently the DSO knows how to treat auditioners. Bravo to them.

quote:

The woodwind and brass world is still somewhat of a mystery to me, and I'm not sure which of the above effects is stronger in their case, but for the strings I definitely believe the outsider has the advantage.

Feuermann, if I had to take a guess in the wind world, I would say that the player in the orchestra has the advantage. Unlike string players, each individual wind player can have there own personality and style (within limits of course) and this liberty is especially true for principals. Ervin Monroe had been with the DSO for 40 years. I studied with him for a few months a couple of years ago and can attest to the fact that his playing is very distinct and refined. Ms. Sparrow has been the second flutist for almost a decade now and I'm sure she knows Erv's playing inside and out. If the committee were looking for someone who played with Erv's style, no one could have done it better.

I've said it many times on these boards in many different ways, but it deserves a repeat. This audition is over and no amount of whining or conspiracy theories will change the outcome. You didn't win. Get over it. Besides, by my count there are at least 9 more auditions in the flute world before the end of May. Maybe we should start to focus our attention on those. (After all Florida is about to have the......Um I lost count.....how many auditions has it been for principal so far?)

I'm sure the winning candidate is a wonderful artist who will do a wonderful job in the principal position. But as she is, by all accounts, an extremely fine player, she would have won the audition anyway even against the competition of a few other players in the finals, and it sure would have looked a helluva lot better.

I suppose it is barely possible that 55 candidates for a top position in a major orchestra were all unqualified to advance beyond the preliminaries, but the odds against that are astronomical. In 40 years I've never seen an audition where no one advanced. Not to say that it couldn't happen - after all, the earth was hit by a giant asteroid 65 million years ago, someone wins millions in the lottery every week, and a few people will be struck by lightning this year. So yes, it's possible.

My gut feeling is that an overt fix wasn't happening, but perhaps the committee, knowing that a great player was due to play in the finals, tightened up and got overly picky for the prelims. There are at least two problems with this: the first is that a deserving player (but nervous on the first day) will get weeded out too soon, before (s)he has a chance to come on strong. A couple of times I have seen a player who almost didn't make the finals eventually get the job. Not very common, but also not unheard of. The second is that it's good to present the committee and MD with some options in the finals; it can't hurt, and in the long run it's probably good for the orchestra as well as offering encouragement and advancement to our brethren on the outside.

The same standard should not be in effect for all three rounds; perhaps that is where this audition went wrong. It sounds like it was basically a one-round audition, with the highest possible standard in effect from the very beginning. There should be a basic standard to advance from the prelims to the semis, then a somewhat higher standard to advance from the semis to the finals, where the highest standard of all is enforced.

Everything may have been kosher at this audition, but at the very least it raises eyebrows at a time when audition procedures in many orchestras are under close scrutiny and the subject of much debate.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Feuermann,