Anyone know the outcome?

I think two people will be playing trials. I don't know who they are.

I guess we don't care if they're good people....but actually I think they're both great people and also seriously badass violists. Congratulations!

Funny thing: most violists ARE good people! :-)

I assume that you got Maiya and Mark's permission to publish this information on a public internet site.

"Just because you can doesn't mean you should."

I agree whole heartedly. Having the knowledge of these people during their trials is really not something to be spread around. Yes, congrats. But come on! Sharing on such a public forum can be damaging. Can you imagine if either of the candidates has a jealous enemy? A malicious management? Can you imagine the damage that can be sent before there is even a chance to play with potential colleagues?

I really wish MyAuditions would crack down on this sensitive material, hearsay, and such. It really puts our business in a shady light, especially since such great lengths are gone to to have at least try to have fair and unbiased auditions!

My orchestra had something similar, and ended up canceling the whole thing due to too much outside influence.

The whole point of this forum is to share info. I don't think MyAuditions is so influential that it's going to destroy someone's career...although I guess stranger things have happened. IMHO, sharing the names of winners isn't doing damage. It's going to get out, one way or another.

This is NOT info that is meant to be shared on public forum. Just because someone feels the need to spread personal knowledge on public forum does not make it right. The audition has not been completed, therefore this behavior can still be harmful to a candidate.

Unlike a concertmaster or conductor final where there are public trials, this is not the case. Please show consideration in the future!

I find it entirely hypocritical that someone would share the names of the finalists (w/o asking them directly) when that person uses a fake online name.

Asking someone that plays regularly with the SPCO is not the same as asking a tenured member.

Plus, there are other ramifications. Having been in this situation myself, let me tell you it is no picnic trying to explain why you might need time off, or why you want to leave XYZ situaion/orchestra. During my own trial, that I did not end up winning, my students got wind of it and many left for a teacher that was "more interested in staying in the area".

It's been awhile since we've had a screaming catfight;remember the LA Phil timp audition? Lets' see how far off-topic and personel this one gets.

Frosty the Freelancer

Nothing to scream about. Names shouldn't be released unless there is a winner. What do you want next? A list of all the auditionees? Geez!

Members,

As the intro text for this forum on the main forum page clearly displays, "Get the inside scoop on past auditions and its unofficial winners from those on the inside," that means auditions that have concluded and winners already selected.

While we prefer that this forum remain self-moderated so all could enjoy posting their comments unedited, we would advise all here to refrain from posting full names of those in the trials phase of the audition.

We receive on average approximately 150,000 unique visitors monthly and have 1,908 registered corporate members, many of them orchestras. While their are currently only 1,753 registered forum members, our forums receive roughly 120,000 page views per month. That means we have many more passive eyes reading the forums then members actually posting.

Jack Reynolds, Director of Community Programs
MyAuditions - Performing Arts Career Resources
www.myauditions.com

I would encourage MyAuditions not to advocate even the spreading of "unofficial" winners' names. There are times when someone may win an audition, only to decide that the orchestra is not the fit that he had hoped it would be. If this is the case and he decides to stay with his current job, having his employer find out by perusing a forum that he was trying to leave could put his job in jeopardy.

I strongly believe that this information should only be gossiped about online once the contract is signed and everything is official. As I said before, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

An orchestral employer can't fire you for taking auditions for other orchestras. Where you can be fired for "cause" is when you lie about why you're taking time off (i.e., taking sick leave so you can take an audition).

If you take personal leave and don't specify what you're doing with your time off, I can understand that you might not want them to know what you're up to, but unless you're violating the terms of the CBA, you legally can't be fired for cause.

For someone who is not yet tenured, it's more of a sticky situation, but I personally don't know of anyone who was denied tenure because they took auditions for other positions.

I've read a lot of complaints about giving names of winners before they've signed contracts or accepted positions, often with the reason given that "it may damage their relations with their current or future employer". I'd like to hear a pattern of specific instances where this has actually happened.

There are many problems. I guess you don't have an abusive management in Oregon. I will not share what orchestra I have encountered problems with this situation, but will tell you that granting leave sometimes becomes an impossibility when the "stakes" are revealed. I will give you the short/easy version of one of the MANY things that happened in one orchestra I worked in.

1.Person gets to the finals of a very high budget orchestra with one of the best situations in the country.

2.Person asks for a week leave for general audition.

3.It is revealed that Person is up for a very big chair in a big orchestra.

4.Person is denied leave that is usually given for auditions.

5.Person decides to take audition anyway, thus having to forfeit current job.


Sure this is dramatic, but it really happened. This player had every right to have leave, but there was a grudge in management and it was apparent that nothing would be done. There were many other cases with this management, but that is not the point. There are abusive managements, selfish conductors, jealous colleagues, and wrongful gossip. Sure there are so many supportive and wonderful people out there. But really, count your self lucky you never had a situation like this. It is absolutely heart breaking.

Further to katinfiddle's response, there could be many reasons that someone would not want non-finalized information publicized on the internet - not only professional ones, but personal ones, as well.

It is presumptuous for us to decide whether it is good, bad, or inconsequential for someone else to have his name posted on the internet before his situation is official.

Until it IS official, that should be for him to decide. This boils down to simple courtesy.

Well then! This thread was very interesting to read however I am in disagreement with what most people are saying here.

I would never want to put someone's career in jeopardy by spreading rumors or get them in trouble with their employers by telling them such and such a player lied about being sick and is really taking an audition. HOWEVER, how can we sit here and say that audition outcomes are private information?!! Correct me if I'm wrong, but unless the announcement is made behind closed doors and the winning candidate is sworn to secrecy (not to mention the other people in the finals who saw the candidate taken away by the personnel manager), and until the orchestra makes a public statement, you can't prevent information from being spread around. It doesn't matter if it's word of mouth or on an internet chat site. These aren't matters of national security. This is just a continuation of the normal talk and conversations that go on face to face at auditions and at work. Saying you need someone's permission to mention their name is quite odd, don't you think? We should, of course, govern ourselves and make sure what we share is accurate and appropriate.

I don't think anyone can tell us that we can't talk about auditions and their outcomes. There's nothing malicious about it and it is almost always with good intentions-- spreading good news. Also, from my own experience, the information I share comes directly from the winner. Who wouldn't want the recognition? The bottom line, as I reiterate, is that you can't prevent this spread of information. If an outcome is private, then the orchestra doing the hiring should treat it so and talk to the winner behind closed doors and the winning candidate should not tell a sole. But come on! You know that's just not possible and that's not how it works anyways.

Even when two people have gotten trials. How can you say it's private information? People know!

Personally, I think most of us here are just curious and happy to hear good news about other people winning auditions. What's wrong with that? Bottom line is we should accept that information spreads more rapidly these days and there's not much you can do about it.

I hope I don't seem insensitive to those who feel that they have been negatively affective by private information being leaked out. But as Charles Noble said, is there any real evidence that this has been damaging to anyone's career?! I would be curious to hear some specific stories.

I'll reiterate: if a person lies and/or violates their orchestra's personnel policy to take an audition - they are making a decision to voluntarily endanger their employment. Orchestras are entitled to permit or deny absences that are of a non-emergency nature, within the constraints of their CBA.

Well, for one, we're not talking about cheating on a spouse or significant other. Secondly, you say "we'll just wait until it's official". We will wait? You're already implying that people know. Third, who takes an audition behind their significant other's back?

Things get around so fast these days with texting, email and mobile phones. And don't forget facebook and myspace. I don't see how you can keep anything under wraps anyway. If its not posted here it will be posted at one of the instrument forums. If a winner is announced at the audition, I think its fair game.