I'm just wondering what the average length is. I play the harp and we don't get a lot of audition opportunities. Not to sound like a vulture, but I look at some of these orchestras where the harpist joined in '69 and it makes me start doing the math...then I start to hope....

I'm just curious about this in general. Is there a point where orchestras are like--time for new blood? A certain age where there is sort of a forced retirement? or can they do that? Or are these players in until they decide to call it quits?

Mostly they're in until they decide to quit.

But.

Some kind of procedure for getting rid of a musician is standard in orchestral master agreements. Usually it works something like this: the conductor notifies the musician that his/her playing is not satisfactory, and supplies a list of specific things (e.g. intonation, following conductor) that need improvement. Usually there is a certain point in the season by which this must be done -- in my orchestra, we all breathe a little easier when January 15th has come and gone -- and then there is usually a certain length of time that the musician has in which to fix the problem. If the conductor is not satisfied with the musician's efforts, then he/she can fire the musician (also known as "non-renewal of contract"). The musician usually has recourse to a peer review committee and/or arbitration if they want.

All that said, the upper end of the orchestral-career spectrum seems to be right around 40 years, and as far as I know, retirement is almost always by choice.

It seems to me that this may differ from instrument to instrument. I have also noticed that harpists tend to stick around an orchestra longer than other players, & I'm sure it would be related to the sheer number of openings. The same possibly could be said for instruments with less auditions than others, ie bass trombone. My observation would be that wind players tend to rotate more, &/or maybe it's more noticeable because of people moving around or quitting to pursue other things (like teaching). I also hear that some wind players literally become tired of playing & can develop facial issues, tendonitis, carpal tunnel, etc. that can affect their playing (we also hear about ones that just stop practicing). But, if you're a wind player in a hot seat & the playing level changes for whatever reason, it would seem that would be more noticeable than an older string player in the 2nd violin section. I'm not saying the string player is NOT noticeable if their playing isn't up to par (any section player would confirm this), but they're not nearly exposed as, say, a principal flutist would be. So, they're either forced to "retire", or some may even get demoted when another section player leaves so the committee can find someone else, but the player could still have a job. I'm just stating some generalizations, but it would be interesting to see how much of it is common.

I did hear a funny story once about a stubborn old string player that wouldn't leave. Some orchestra members & the personnel manager had apparently heavily hinted at his retirement, which he ignored & said he wasn't leaving his seat. So, they literally took him & his seat out of the orchestra