DECEMBER, 2005 SPECIAL REPORT

"Musical Chairs: Supply and Demand of Orchestral Musicians"

Brandon VanWaeyenberghe's analysis compares in detail the number of music graduates with the number of job openings in top orchestras over a ten year period.

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Disclaimer: The contents of this report is strictly the opinion of the author and not that of MyAuditions, its employees, affiliates and/or partners.

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Hi Brandon,

I've only downloaded and just began to read your report but I was curious to know how you came to choose this topic for your master's thesis?

During a night of social drinking after a concert at CCM, a friend asked me what the chances were of her getting a job in an upcoming audition. I pondered her question hard and attempted to find an answer, but all I could get were approximations or estimates.

Over that summer I worked at the National Repertory Orchestra. After getting to know the musicians there and finding out about their dreams and career aspirations, I came back to CCM wanting to do something to help them.

I really did the research and wrote the paper for my friends. Yes, the report does picture the music field in a depressing light, but I believe that this study is needed to begin a dialogue between musicians, administrators and educators to tackle the problem.

In spite of the sobering results, I think you have done a great service to the musical community. Clearly, there are too many performance majors graduating each year compared to projected job openings. It is hard to tell independant institutions what to do but this should be a wake up call to many. I never understood why so many small universities and colleges with limited music depts offer performance degrees at all. They should focus on music ed, music business, music history, etc. I liked your idea of exposing musicians to non-performance career opportunities - orchestra management, composition, recording industry, etc.

What percentage of American orchestra positions are filled by non-US citizens? I know many European countries and even Canada have national or EU auditions and only allow non-nationals when a suitable candidate cannot be found. Are US orchestras being too fair to non-US applicants?

One thing you didn't address was retirement age. In Europe, there is a rather early retirement age of 55. In the US, there are musicians playing into their 80s. Probably, something in between is where things ought to be. Even a mandatory retirement age of 70 would open up a lot of jobs. In addition, bolstering the health of America's orchestras and enabling them to carry full rosters is also important in maintaining the demand for musicians.

It is also scary that so many of these students are graduating with a lot of debts from college loans. I don't see how many of them will ever be able to pay them off. --Another reason for institutions like Curtis and now Yale with free tuition.

I think every Dean should receive a copy of your report. My only fear is that too many talented musicians will be scared away from following their dreams with this type of news. This will hurt the orchestras of the future.

Which is why I wrote to the Melinda and Bill Gates Foundation to start up regional orchestras throughout the world for these grads to get jobs--and put the cyber-concert series online--perhaps someday there will be such opportunities for more musicians.

Please keep us posted on the Melinda and Bill Gates response! Sounds interesting!

yeah, for sure!

There certainly are enough people who want to play music professionally, why not accomodate? And what about trying to beef up or expand something like the Affiliate Artist outreach program (if it's still around, I don't know), where artists go into non-ordinary venues like factories and offices during workers' breaks and give interactive performances and demonstrations, in regions where one might want to develop a regional orchestra....?

I remember that--was one of them--they are not around--would be great if they were, but even then, it was hard to get into--musicians need a more accessible way to acquire employment--the Gates Fdtn. declined a few years ago on my cyber orchestra idea--maybe I should write again, now that technology is beefed up and internet events are a bit more plentiful (though not where they should be). My idea is a take-off on the NBC Radio Symphony which I titled the MSNBC CyberPhilharmonic Orchestras. They would consist of several strategically orchestras located in various regions throughout the world, sell tickets online for 'concerts on-demand' so people anywhere in the world can see it anytime they want, pay a salary, benefits to the players and administrations, and perhaps offer the opportunities to play musical chairs and switch locations on a rotational basis, if they opt for that. Their concerts can also be recorded and sold online for downloading, etc etc--and have their own set of rules and regulations based on their own global requirements--since they wouldn't belong to any one nation. It's almost like a training orchestra of a sort, a stepping stone to a more permanent position. Doesn't necessarily have to be the Gates Fdtn--just any biggies with $$ out there that might take to my idea---which can offer atleast several orchestral locations for musicians--it's educational and groundbreaking--perhaps readers out there ay know such people or companied globally that would indeed have interest in this--and, it might serve as a model for other orchestras (and all other performing arts venues) to start 'on demand' concerts for their series online to boost revenue for their organizations in the 21st century.

Unfortunately, Affiliate Artists isn't around--and it was also through auditions to get into the organization--it was a wonderful opportunity for musicians to get opportunities! No--the Gates Fdtn declined my idea a few years ago, but maybe I should write again since technology is beefed up since then. My idea for affording new opportunities to musicians is a stepping stone situation, a takeoff on the radio technology of yesteryear when there were still radio orchestras in the US ie NBC Radio Symphony--I thought of the MSNBC CyberPhilharmonic Orchestra--several to be set up in strategic global locations--with their own set of rules and regulations as an organization--and 'on demand' online concert series developed so anyone in the world can pay a nominal fee to see it online (many people will have internet home theaters--if not already--for enhanced online experiences) and serve as a model for other global orchestras (and performing arts organizations) to develop the 'on demand' online series to help boost their revenue throughout the year. It would provide salary, benefits to players and administrations and help those who graduate finding it hard to get employment. I believe in 2100, one will be able to vitually see and hear almost any performing venue in their home through online on-demand. It doesn't mean that only the Gates Fdtn can afford it--perhaps there are readers who visit this forum anywhere in the world that knows people with $$ or with major corporations that can get this started.

Yes, Affiliate Artists was good...there weren't that many spots for musicians but it did help promote the artists who did do it. I was actually making mention of it in terms of helping regional audiences grow fonder of any orchestras that a finance company might want to put into the region. If you did 3 performances in a week for 2,000 people and then gave a series of recitals or concerto performances in their town, it seemed effective in drawing the otherwise non-concert friendly folks in. Too bad they're gone! I hadn't heard.

(For those who are unfamiliar, Affiliate Artists was an organization a little while back that among other things took musicians/actors/performers and trained them to do "on-site performances", where you would prepare a certain presentation to give to people in various types of workplaces like factories or offices, or in schools. You would actually work with a performance coach and learn about how to be effective at the same time you were refining your presentation. The program was designed to promote not only the artist, but the idea that average joes would possibly become more interested in the arts if they had some more intimate exposure in a relaxed setting. Question and answer was part of the presentation, viewers were encouraged to give feedback about their experience of the artist's presentation. Usually, there would be several of these presentations in a region in conjunction with a series of formal recitals in the community in question or concerts with the area orchestra over several days or a week.)

Your post brings back memories--I did the Affiliate route with the orchestras of Amarillo, Philadelphia (Saratoga/Prok 3 and Germantown Academy residency), New Mexico, Elgin, St. Louis--wish they were around--but times change and new sources of $$ must always be tapped. Well, you guys, I want to write to Steve Jobs with the cyber orchestra idea--nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Affiliate Artists also had a program to support and nurture young American conductors. I think Exxon was the sponsor.

I certainly do not mean to ignore or make light the difficulties of making a career in music but, with all due respect to Brandon and others, classical music has always been a competitive field and it will always be. The discussion about "too many musicians, too few orchestra openings" has been going on for decades. I certainly heard it when I graduated NEC back in the dark ages - 1975.

The fact is that there are probably more professional orchestras in the USA today than 30 years ago. (True, they're not all 52-week orchestras paying $100,000 salaries.)

The point about mandatory retirement is interesting. Do you think musicians would agree to that? What about US orchestras giving audition/hiring preference to US musicians?

Jeffrey Biegel: Bill Gates lives about a mile from my office. If you can get him to donate to orchestras, please let me know!

...a short reply on one of those topics Larry: I totally disagree with "mandatory retirement".

That would be like telling Gordie Howe to hang up the skates at age 35......

Probably no one loves mandatory retirement but honestly it is doubtful that 80 year olds are performing at the same level they did at 40 or 50. There is a time to hang things up and let the next generation have a chance. I remember when the CSO retired four 80+ year old violinists a few years ago. It was the right thing to do. Some retired players come back and sub once in a while like their emertus trumpet player but they've moved on.

Universities have done this for years - why not orchestras?

Because it's about respect. Someone devotes their entire professional life, or say several decades even, to your organization, you show them the thanks and respect that they have earned by allowing them to come to that decision on their own. One might in the most gentle, positive, and NON-SUGGESTIVE way hint once in a blue moon, and I mean once in a blue moon, about enjoying the benefits of retirement, but really.....if you're talking about people who have given their blood at a high level for a long time, retiring should be their decision, not a bunch of younger opportunists trying to have a go. Not to mention, I have never heard one octagenarian complain about mandatory retirement.

Some older folks might not have the chops of a 20 something, but have you ever sat in a section next to someone over 70 and played with them? Listened to them? Before you mandate that they should go home, why don't you try listening to the immensity of their experience on the music you are trying to learn? You might learn something from them, speaking of getting a chance. Once you begin to understand that experience and understanding in music sounds so good, and can outweigh the attraction to the sound of flashy technique, you might not be so quick to write someone off who HAS played Mahler 1 130 times. Older people have something that younger people don't have and can't replicate... time.

I think that the youth-worship of 21st century America should be checked at the door when entering the symphony world. Youthfuls need to get over themselves and learn something from the elders. Humble yourself and make it nice for them so they have their final days in peace, thanks for many fine years of service. When they step down, they step down and you move in when they're done. It's the right way.

Granted, basalin, but let's face facts: more musicians of a 60+ age are declining than not. Most of us will be very lucky to reach age 65 with our full set of skills intact. I've known and worked with a few who've done it, but a lot more who haven't.

The elephant in this particular room is the AFM pension, which rewards musicians for retiring after age 65, regardless of years of service. A musician who joined a major orchestra at age 22 (as opposed to one who won the job at 36) still can't retire before 65 without taking a major pension hit, and that's just absurd. I know many musicians who would have liked to retire earlier, but suffered the humiliation of soldiering on in the face of overwhelming medical/performance difficulties, just to be sure that they would receive a reasonable pension. I can't fault these musicians for their decision (I may have to make it myself someday,) but I can fault the AFM for maintaining a pension based on a flat retirement age rather than a years-of-service equation, in an industry where most musicians have a definite shelf life.

Awww, step off, dude! I knew those guys from the CSO and they could play fine, probably better at 85 than most at any age anywhere else. I heard it different, that they retired on their own. But that's not the point.....

I'm just responding to this blanket statement that people should be "RETIRED" at a certain point no matter what the circumstances, and weighing in the prevalent age predjudice in this country, I think it's wrong!

Yeah, if someone's ready to hang it up and they are forced to hold on because of pension considerations, that's one thing, but what about when they want to play but aren't quite on the physical level of the younger collegues? You fire them? I think that stinks and the orchestra world, in all of it's anal-retentive attention to persnickety detail, is all the worse for it. Let's leave out of this discussion the old folks that don't practice and don't care and complain all the time and don't try. The ones who do are strong players, good listeners, caring, and filled with experience. It seems you're missing the point, the whole feeling of how to be around older folks without judging them while truly enjoying their presences and what they have to offer. The diversity of ages within a band makes it so much more beautiful! So what if a few notes fall on the floor? It's a peculiar brand of peevish orchestra player that has to thumb his or her nose at the aged. Sorry, man, it's a total turn-off.

Maybe it's a matter of taste? I'd much rather sit with someone who played under Solti than sit with some green wet-behind-the-ears recent grad who can play every lick of Don Juan spot on. Facts? Fact is, old people are treated like garbage when they get older and mandating retirement is just another way of showing ugliness and disrespect. Personally, I have always stood in admiration of older players, even if their chops weren't where mine were. It's the person, either you respect (or are willing to) or you don't. I played with someone who played the premier of Bartok's concerto for orchestra. He was in his 70's when I met him and his chops weren't brand-spankin sparklin new, but he CERTAINLY knew how to play in an orchestra as well as be a pal and be friendly and a good colleague and a strong section player all at once. I can think of several right off the top of my head who fit that description and looking back, I myself remember having that initial impression that so many younger players have of their older colleagues, that they were washed up and had little going on. And as I got closer to them and played more with them, that impression just fell apart.

I'm sorry if you have that impression still with you about your older colleagues. From my own experience, I see it as immature and out of place. Widespread, sure, you'll probably get a lot of folks to agree with you on that, but nahhhhhh....old folks are righteous, especially ones 30 years ahead of me, fer sher.

I remember another guy, old violinist.....at first I thought he was a mindless hack and should retire, but then the more I played with him, the more I loved the way he VIEWED MUSIC. His playing wasn't crystalline, out of tune alot, scratchy, but he would pay attention to the music in ways that I started noticing were deeper that others. He would really get into each piece, each phrase, and had some aligned, real understanding to give. He LISTENED. Later I found out he was also a conductor! Word around the orchestra was mixed; there were those who admired him because he was older and still showin up, and then there were the naysayers (in the violin section) who complained because they thought he was out of touch.

I'm not saying all who reach advanced age are these treasure troves of experience and information. I've met some who were bitter, angry, out of shape, complaining, lazy, yip-yapping know-it-alls who pretty regularly set everybody else in the section back a couple of notches and didn't care at all about being nice. But overall, the point is respecting the elder----if you're not listening to them like you were on a committee, you hear things come out of them that make you go wow...but you have to be open minded. If you're already judging them, you miss it. Everybody suffers in some way when that happens. That to me is facts.

Here's what I think the orchestra world should do about retirement...
I think this should pertain to the larger metropolitan orchestras:

If a musician reaches 75 and they have a music director that isn't pleased w/their playing...I think it would be up to the Music Director to have a meeting w/them to talk about the options of retirement..buy them out? But, if the playing is okay by the Music Director at 75 and beyond,then let em play! In my case, I will retire at the age of 65-70..LATEST. I know there is a snub against young musicians and how older musicians get annoyed (mostly w/the attitude of SOME young musicians that they just "Rip" things off in Don Juan, etc.) but what about respect for the younger musicians? I mean, there are some really great young musicians that are also decent people and have a good attitude towards the older musicians...but I think ALSO...older musicians have an insecurity to the younger musicians and automatically assume that they are little prodigies w/big egos and this kind of morale does not help the ensemble. It is about making music right?

Phoenix wrote "In Europe, there is a rather early retirement age of 55." - this is not true. In my orchestra, there is optional retirement at 62, "normal" is 67, and if the employer approves, you may continue until 70. This varies a lot from place to place, and there is no such thing as a general rule.

Personally, I will stop playing when I see lots of players better than me who would kill to get my job. Even if it is when I turn 40.

....and even though I'm tenured myself right now, I don't really know if musicians should be tenured. Maybe 10-year contracts could be an idea?

In Germany, there was a similar but more concentrated study done some years ago. They counted performance majors in all German "Musikhochschulen" and openings in all German orchestras (some 110 orchestras) the next five years. (The normal length of study in Germany at that time was five years).

Then, we could see that the instruments with BEST possibilities of getting work were bassoon (work for 1 in 4 students) and viola (1 in 3), and the worst possibilites were for flute (only 1 out of 10 students would get a job), and cello (1/8).

Of course, this study left out many important variables, but they count both ways. Currently unemployed musicians, musicians who work without a degree, immigrant musicians, orchestra job cuts - but on the other hand foreign students who go back home, musicians who leave their career early, students who choose different careers, etc....

Anyways, there was a clear picture, but not related to winds/strings - the difference in possibilites was between individual instruments.

Another difficulty in the US is the number of orchestras which don't have a full season, so one musician often has two or three (or more) employers and then makes a living. That makes statistics even more difficult. In any case, the US musicians' job market is much more than the top-12 orchestras.