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Hey All!

This is a fantastic article. I personally run a recording studio dedicated to classical clients and I get to hear horror stories all the time of "recordings gone bad."

One of the great misconceptions is that, all you as the musician need to do is show up and play and it's the recording engineer's job to make it sound good on tape.

WELL...that would be in an ideal world, but the unfortunate thing is that, there aren't always a plethora of recording companies that specialize in recording acoustic instruments. If you are dealing with one, feel confident that all you really need to do is perform well and the recording will be taken care of. However, if you go to the local studio that does rock or country as 95% of their work, you'll need to be super prepared. The concept of a string quartet is foreign to them.

They'll try to do things like individually mic each instrument (which is a no-no in classical recording, unless you're recording a film soundtrack) or rearrange how you're sitting.

Here's my unsolicited advice - if you will be making a recording of classically based or oriented music - find a specialist. They may cost $10 more an hour, but it will be cheaper in the long run since you'll finish your project quicker.

If anyone needs a referral to a good classical recording engineer in your area, please feel free to contact me. I have well-respected and seasoned colleagues that specialize in the following regions:

Philadelphia
Upper Ohio
Central Indiana
Northern Georgia
Virginia/DC/MD
L.A.
Chicago
New York
Tennessee
North Carolina
South Carolina
Sydney Australia
Denmark
Ireland
Germany (all regions)
New Zealand

BTW - this referral service is a no-charge service and refers to companies other than my own (although, if you're in my area, I'd be glad to help).

The only reason I offer this is simply b/c, as a musician myself, I understand the frustrations of working with a recording engineer who simply doesn't understand the special requirements of acoustic instruments.

Thanks!!!!

Jeremy Cucco
jeremy@sublymerecords.com

May I add a few words to Jeremy's reply:

Remember that the excellent article to which he referred is aimed at acoustic musicians in general and not to the special sector called "classical."

In general, there are very few studios in the US that understand classical music and do it well. Remember that the room in which you play behaves like an instrument itself, and is more critical than even when playing a live performance. In Europe (where most classical music is recorded) most important projects (even chamber music) is done in churches, etc., not studios, even though there are some very fine ones available. The Grammy-winning Takacs Beethoven quartets are a good example, recorded on location at St. George’s, Brandon Hill, Bristol.

Finally, remember that most of what you think about recording comes from a pop/studio mindset and is not appropriate for classical playing. A click track is DEATH to music that lives and breathes. Headphones are another distraction that you do well to avoid if at all possible.

Finally, think of the producer as being as essential as one of the players. The producer gets the best performance from the musicians and the best sound from the engineer. And if one person can do both equally well you are ahead of the game.

Finally, don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish. If you cannot afford someonw with mics that are ideal for classical work or software that can edit anything, save your money until you can. The adage about the sow's ear and silk purse holds true. The people who buy your CD expect deserve first-class music making and also first-class sound and production. Don't disappoint them or they likely will not try your second CD!

Rich

What I would be interested to know from the recording guys who posted on this thread, is have they worked with orchestral musicians to produce a good, quality and affordable audition tape that one could send in when tapes are required.

The short answer is yes-- dozens! However, affordable is a relative term.

Because editing is always forbidden, you can do pretty well yourself IF you get great mics and do it in a really good room. Chapels are a good bet-- usually not real dry or wet.

Rich

In answer to the question -

Absolutely! I do audition tapes (CDs of course) all the time. My usual venues to do this are:
Local college's recital hall
Churches
Cathedrals
Occassionally, school band rooms or chorus rooms

Cheap...hmmm... I think it's cheap :-)

My personal rate for "on-location" recording is $75 per hour. I add on 1 hour each for set up and take down. But... (this is a big "but") I waive those fees for audition tapes. So, in other words, I only charge $75 if the session stays within an hour or so. For that $75, I give you a copy of the CD with your pertinent information printed directly on the disc, a jewel case and a mailer envelope with proper postage so that all you have to do is simply drop it in a PO box. I also throw in 1 free disc for your own posterity.

Personally, I'd like to think of myself as a nice guy, so if the session runs say 1 hour and 7 minutes (give or take) I won't immediately tack on the next hour either.

As Rich points out - editing is strictly forbidden in most cases. That means, no adding reverb, no splicing takes, etc. So, usually it boils down to 2 or 3 runs top to bottom on a piece (usually 2 pieces and some excerpts required.) and then choose the best out of the bunch.

I've never had an audition tape session run more than 1 and a half hours.

Cheers!

Jeremy

A few questions for you guys...

1. I've been wanting to make an audition tape but not sure of which mics do use. Any suggestions?
2. How are the mic's setup at the recording session? Are there multiple mic's position around the musician or just one directly in front?
3. If I can do it myself at a local church or recital hall, what type of affordable software would you recommend?
4. If you do recordings outside of your studio (e.g. churches), is the rate usually hire?

Thanks for any info.

A couple of good questions here:

I'll answer in order.

1. It really depends on your budget and on your instrument. For a solo only, I'll often use on close mic and two distant mics. The intent is to provide a good mix of direct and reflected sound, just as a good hall does. I prefer mics by Schoeps, DPA and Gefell. The problem is, for the average person, these mics are incredibly expensive (Roughly $1200 to $1500 each). Some cheaper, but noticeably less quality mics are Studio Project C4s, Rode NT5's and a few other budget mics. In general, I stick with Small Diaphragm Condenser mics (often referred to as pencil mics.)

2.I guess I kinda answered that one in number 1 up there, but I should say that it varies greatly. I would definitely not mic a horn the same way I would mic a cello. If you give me an example or two, I'll touch on each of them.

3.There are several packages on the market nowadays that will allow you to purchase almost everything you need to get the job done (though, truthfully serious compromises in sound will have to be made) which include computer interfaces, software and microphone preamplifiers. All you need to do is add the mics, cables and stands and you're good to go. The most common "cheap" software is either Cubase LE (free with many of these packages) or ProTools LE (free download, but you have to use ProTools hardware. - That's a whole other issue altogether...)

4. Yes, if I do recordings outside of my studio, I charge $75 per hour. In the studio, I charge $50 per hour. Mainly because it takes a bit to get all of my gear in the truck, unload it, unpack it, pack it back up, unload it again and unpack it again...However, bear in mind that most studios are not designed with acoustic instruments in mind. (On a side note- I'm in the process of building a studio capable and designed to record an orchestra of up to 50 pieces or more. The hall is quite large - 40 feet by 65 feet with 35 foot ceilings) Usually, recording studios are designed to record electric guitars and drums. Instruments that benefit from adding reverb processing and thus do not need a lot of space to really sound their peak.

I hope this helps.

Jeremy

Your questions could easily generate involved answer that might not apply to you, so let's try this:

Are you considering buying mics and some digital recording device?

Regardless of your answer, my unswerving advice is to keep it simple-- 2 mics only. You are likely to muck things up in some way to add more. Far better to choose a good room (not too bright-- between 1.5 and 2 seconds reverb), position the mics until it sounds right (6-8 ft high, 5-10 feet away from you).

You can buy a suitable digital recording device for $500-800 (used), and I reccommend the Alesis Masterlink unless you MUST be battery-powered. With the Alesis you can record each take, eliminate the drek and burn the good stuff direct to CDR.

The mic thing gets sticky because most recording devices need a line-level rather than mic level input signal (a fraction of the needed strength).

This is probably more info than you need until you decide if you are renting, borrowing, or buying.

Rich

Shortly after moving to central Florida, I had the opportunity to record a 2 CD box set. I was responsible for producing it, and I had to locate a suitable studio. My first challenge was to find a studio that understood the needs of a classical guitarist. It actually wasn't too difficult. Usually, when I'd phone the studio and describe the project, they'd ask what kind of guitar pick-up I used, which told me that they were clueless. I succeeded in finding a good studio after about 2 days of phone calls, and did the recording there.

I've recently started to record myself (with the assistance of an engineer who is deeply indebted to me - my son) using a Boss home digital recording studio that cost me around $1000, and 2 Audio Technica condenser mics, AT3035. This is a large diaphragm mic with plenty of gain. I had auditioned several mics ranging in price from $200 to around $1000, and, surprisingly, this lower priced (around $250) mic sounded best. Call me lucky.

I'm recording in a chapel. One mic is placed a couple of feet in front of me, and the other is placed about a third of the way back in the chapel. When it is all finished I'll take it to a studio for editing and mastering. The results may not be as good as what a major label COULD get, but I've heard some major label CDs that weren't as good as what I'm getting from my recording set up. (Let's face it, even the majors aren't always producing up to their highest standards.) And since the CD will probably be sold only at my concerts, master classes, and in some specialty stores where I live, I believe the results will be more than satisfactory.

You have solved the second most important challenge-- the recording environment. The most important is the music, which you take care of.

Your mic choice is good. However, the mic setup you describe is actually monophonic regardless of what the studio does later on.

I am not far from you and would not mind discussing some options, if you are interested. Use either the email link or phone number on my website.

Rich

do the orchestra's requesting tapes typically have a list of recording facilities around the country they endorse, recommend or refer to candidates in need of a recording?

When I was on the audition trail I never saw that, unless you count the infamous St Louis example when everyone was handed a battery-powered cassette recorder and told to go into an assigned room and play their preliminary round into it!

I do not think there is any way that such a list could be compiled, no to mention the fact that a typical small and dry studio is usually the worst acoustic space to try to sound your best. Stick to recital halls and chapels.

Rich

I have found this not to be the case. In general, orchestras fall into 3 camps regarding their recording engineers:

1. They're a huge orchestra (such as the case with the National Symphony) and they play in a renowned hall (eg, Kennedy Center) which is staffed by trade union employees that run the house's sound and recording equipment. They don't necessarily do the best recordings, but since they're contracted, that's what you're stuck with. Then, these big groups hire out companies like Telarc, Teldec, etc. to come record them for the BIG release CDs.

2. The still big but not as big as say the Chicago Symphony orchestras usually have their concerts recorded and it's usually by a friend of the conductor, etc. I find this is my most difficult competition. Again, not because of the quality of their recordings, but because there is no way the conductor or orchestra manager will tell their friend not to show - they have another guy. In this area (Washington DC Metro area), there are quite a few of these "friends." Many of whom possess 2 or 3 decent microphones, a DAT and a Mackie mixer and claim to turn out "audiophile - minimalist recordings." (Editorial regarding this is below)

3. The smaller orchestras that know they would like to have a CD or have their concerts recorded, but don't even know how to go about doing it, who to call, how much it will cost, etc.

Editorial:
Many people profess to perform "Audiophile Minimalist" recordings (the wording will vary, but you'll hear the terms tossed in a lot.) Be wary if not downright skeptical about these recordists. This is usually another way of saying "I don't have that big of a budget, so I bought 2 microphones and a DAT recorder instead of a full recording rig." That's a tad oversimplified, but I say this to prove my point.

I like to think of my recordings as audiophile AND minimalist, but I usually set up anywhere between 4 and 6 mics for any given orchestra. Is is possible to use less? Sure, but more often than not, you find the recording to be lacking width or depth. It is VERY difficult to do a 2 microphone recording well and I certainly wouldn't do it with any less than 6 hours of prep on-site to crunch calculations and factor distances, delays and nulls.

Of course, there are those that profess to doing minimalist recordings that do a fantastic job - it's just very important that you find out *how* they do their recordings, not that it's minimalist.

The statement you'll hear often is - we only have 2 ears, you only need two microphones. Well, to a degree, that's true. But, if you've ever listened to a concert suspended above the conductor on a 15 foot pole (and I hope none of you have...) the piece sounds dramatically different than from the audience's perspective. In truth, even from the audience's perspective, it's difficult to really hear "exactly" what the orchestra sounds like. Our brains and ears are VERY smart and piece back the missing acoustical pieces without us even realizing it.

So I guess that was a REALLY long answer to a fairly short and simple question. :-)

You will find that the internet is a great source of information though. Do a search on recording engineers in your area. Call the ones you find and take notes. If in doubt, come back to this forum - Rich and I would be glad to give you rather unbiased advice (neither of us have anything to gain from it since we're quite a bit away from upstate NY).

I hope this helps and doesn't bore :lol:

J.

Hi,

Was wondering Rich/Jeremy are involved with myauditions. A while back, myauditions was talking about having an audition tour around the US to record repertoire tapes but they have yet to make any further announcements.

Don't know anything about this. It would take ALOT of planning plus many pre-paid non-refundable bookings to work.

Seems to me that it would make more sense to compile a list of musically understanding recordists around the country.

Rich

Interesting article and thread, thanks.

A few thoughts:

quote:

As Rich points out - editing is strictly forbidden in most cases. That means, no adding reverb,

I have never, ever read where reverb is forbidden, nor do I know any classical violinists who have those kind of ears, or even care for that matter. Same goes with EQ. Splicing= No No.

I am not an engineer, but I do/know a lot about recording, I play on one of the biggest rock albums ever made. Recording is just a hobby for me, so here is some insight from someone who has been on a LOT of audition commitees listening to tapes:

A. A lot of classical players dont listen to music, strange but true. Certainly not with "engineer" ears

B. The point of the tape is to weed out the weaklings. The commitee often breaks up, puts 5 in a room with a CD player/Tape deck. After two minutes, people say " He's good, lets say yes" or " I dont think so, ouch!"

C. Someone mentioned burning the CD with a label of applicants name, resume blah blah... This might not be good. Anonymous no longer ( sometimes a proctor does it, sometimes not)

D. I have made many audition tapes, for myself and others. Never had one not invited. At first I was using a tape deck I bought at a drug store and a radio shack special, didnt matter.

E. these days, I use a shure SM57 (80 bucks), lil spirit mixer for pre-amp,darla soundcard into my computer running SONAR ( software by cakewalk). Do it in my lousy living room, lots of noise in this apt complex, just press record. I add reverb, eq a bit, burn CD, hand my buddy his free CD and watch him get invited.

F. By all means, if you got the bucks, get a pro. They are pros for a reason, they got the skillz to payz the billz. Its a learning experience, they are helpful and friendly, and they want a good product as much as you, so I heartily endorse getting a pro recordist if you can, it aint gonna hurt.

G. If you dont have the bucks ( ummmm, you ARE lookin for a job right?) then dont panic. I have seen people use those plastic mic thingees with computers and pass. The commitee isnt this sacred group of tribal elders, its people just like you who want to get through a bunch of tapes fast and eat lunch.

All valid points. The goal of any auditionee (either live or recorded) is to get everyone to stop reading the newspaper and to sit up and take notice. The musical abilities neccesary for that to happen will come through whether it was recorded on a boombox or a TASCAM DSD recorder.

Incidentally, I never said tbat adding reverb was verboten. That is probably a gray area, but a nice room added to a marginal or inadequate player will not make any difference in the final results. For that matter, it will be very obvious very quickly whether the engineer deserves an editing award. If you can't deliver the goods in person, why spend all the money to record a dishonest audition CD (not to mention plane tickets and other expenses) if you won't last more than the minimum required listening time set forth in the master agreement (usually about 5 minutes)?

Rich

It was me that stated that reverb was forbidden.

True, it's not always forbidden, but I have seen several instances where the tape requirements state that no modifications are to be done to the recording, specifying reverb, splices, eq-ing or even fades. They simply wanted a dry run.

And, while it's true that a talented performer could just as easily submit an acceptable tape by recording on their boom box, it's an accepted "given" that sound quality plays an integral role in the "listenability" of a disc/tape. You wouldn't want your demo glossed over simply because the judges found it difficult to listen to, would you?

The good news is, there are numerous affordable options for recording yourself in your own home while putting out a pretty darned good disc. In fact, you may be better off doing this than to go to the "rock" studio. Ultimately, you have to live with the results in the end. If you're willing to put the money and effort into recording yourself, it's a rewarding experience. If, however, you'd prefer to "leave it to the pro's," you'll find that it's not terribly expensive nowadays to hire an acoustic specialist.

Jeremy

If EQ is forbidden, then an acceptable mic list should be required! There ia point at which it all becomes absurd.

I strongly disagree with the implication that a poor quality recording will be "glossed over"-- from my experiene on audition committees we were DESPERATE to hear a glimmer of musical hope regardless of how deep it was buried in sonic muck! This was especially true with the "tape round", as folks with a track record would already have been invited.

I think many candidates do not realize how badly the committee wants to hear good talent, rather than the notion of wanting to slash everyone! After all, the winning candidate might be sitting next to you for DECADES.

Rich